From digest.v4.n823 Tue Jul 9 22:02:04 1996
From: "Carl Buckland" <buckland_at_xmission.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:22:04 +0000
Subject: H&Rsprings and Koni shocks

>
> In a message dated 96-07-09 17:08:30 EDT,Carl writes...
(if Dan goes with the H&R 2910 springs and Bilstein/Koni shocks)

> >The car will be "firm," and you will feel every little bump. Be
> >careful over curbs, as it will be enough lower to require some
> >care. I think it will be very " streetable," but low and too firm
> >for some people.
> >
> >On the positive side, you will notice *much* less body roll, as
> >well as much less understear. It also looks much more aggressive.
> >
>
> Thanks. The roads in Florida are actually pretty good, we'll see
> :-)
>

>Do you recall the charge for the Koni retrofit? Also, do you have a
> part no. or item no. for the rear shocks? Lastly, would you be so
> kind as to provide TC Kline's ph #?

Call Carl Stewart at TC Kline Racing, tell him that I sent you. He will answer all your questions and then some. 1-614-771-7744 (Ohio)

> Lastly, what are your thoughts on stock shocks with the H&R springs
> - am I wasting my time and I should just pick up the shocks too?
> Some have indicated that the stock set up as to shocks is sufficient
> for these springs.

I disagreee, but you could try it. There will be a duplication of work if you later do the shocks. The rear shocks are not strong enough for the stronger springs, nor are they they right length. The springs are shorter, and will compress the rear shocks. I do know, however, from personal experience, that the H&R springs WILL work with the stock front struts. Be sure to cut the bump stops as the instructions will tell you, so that the springs do the work, rather than the bump stops.

> I am a fan of adding handling piecemeal but am I cutting my nose to
> spite my
> face?

see above

> Strange thing - and please provide input if you can help - with the
> racing dynamics sway bars (27/22) and stock everything else, much
> more understeer than I expected (albeit less than stock, but not
> appreciable - loose front and tight rear)

You can do as much harm as good with improperly set up sway bars. Try stiffer setting in the rear, and full soft in the front. That would give you a little more oversteer, or at least less understeer.

. I am still on street
> tires which may be making things hard - I'll be into R1s shortly. I
> was hoping that by going to stiffer springs, the understeer would be
> reduced. I wonder if the suspension was thrown off by just changing
> one component as oppossed to all of them?

As far as I am concerned, your hit and miss approach to suspension tuning is getting you hit and miss results. but guess what? I think that that is half the fun! You really aren't causing any PERMANENT problems, and you are learning while you go. Try the book "How to Make Your Car Handle," by Puhn (and HP book). Lots of good ideas. I don't think that you need to "do it all at once," necessarily. But I do think that if you dialed in the sway bars wrong, you might have gotten some pretty bizaar results.

Don't let me or anyone else tell you that "THIS is THE right way to do it." Learn some basics by reading the book, or talking to race tuners who really do know about suspension setup, and then gradually dial in your car until it is the way YOU like it. Jacque Villenuve can't drive Damon Hill's backup car every time he wrecks his own, because it is set up differently than the way he likes it (plus for many other reasons too technical to go into here). Why should you necessarily like someone elses set up?

> Thanks again for your help. Also, let me know how you like the coil
> overs.
>
> Dan Martinez
> St. Petersburg, Fl

Keep at it, and have fun. Let us know how it finally works out.

Regards,

Carl
Carl Buckland
1000 Boston Bldg
Nine Exchange Place
Salt Lake City, Utah 84111
801-531-6686
Fax 531-6690
E Mail buckland_at_xmission.com