UnofficialBMW.com
Unofficial BMW

Unofficial BMW

Google Search





What's New

Search (Google!!)

FAQ

BulletinBoard

Classifieds

Garage

Images

Books

Tools

Parts

Used Cars

Links

FTP

Advertise

Search Amazon.com
In Association with Amazon.com
 

Home E12 E24 E28 E30 E34 E36 Z3 E39 E46 X5/E53 ALL
Ron Stygar Carl Buckland Dale Beuning Forums Help

Unofficial BMW Nav Map


From digest.v7.n442 Wed Oct 15 10:55:20 1997
From: albert jenab <jenab_at_his.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:27:34 -0400
Subject: comments on Sebring superchargers

Hi Ron,
Regarding your post on superchargers, I own a 91 Miata with a Sebring= supercharger (and a 95 M3 among other things...). So I have some= experience and a few comments. There's a lot of marketing hype from all= manufacturers of forced induction systems, and it's difficult to sort= through it all.

First, I disagree with your remarks on intercoolers. Lots of systems for= many different applications don't include intercoolers and they work just= fine. It's a matter of cost vs. power. Turner's 355 HP kit for the M3= ($5500) doesn't have an intercooler. The $7000 400HP kit does. The= Mosselman turbo kit he offers for the 318ti 1.9 is $4500 and is= intercooled, but uses an AFPR like the Sebring (i.e. no chip as far as I= can tell). The Miata has almost no room under the hood for an intercooler,= and unless you put it in front of the radiator, it doesn't do you any good= anyway. More on this later.

And you are misinterpreting what happens on very hot days and why detonation= can be a problem. It has nothing to do with lack of an intercoooler. = Underhood temps on supercharged Miatas run as high as 170 degrees, worse= with a non-insulated header and on hot days. Intercooler or not, you will= have problems compressing air which starts out this hot. Reformulated gas= also plays a role (see below). So the solution (for any type of forced= induction system) is to get cooler ambient air into the engine. Hell of a= lot cheaper than an intercooler, too. Additionally, the intake for the= Sebring sits right by the header, so a little ingenuity and ducting is= called for. There's almost no room under a Miata hood (did I say this= before?).

Second, the Eaton/Rootes design may have a slightly lower thermal efficiency= (82%) than other approaches, but who cares? It's not enough to= substantially impact performance or reliability of a similar boost-level= non-intercooled system, and they are relatively cheap and reliable. Either= that or I guess those 5000HP top fuel dragster dudes don't know what= they're doing. Neither does Mercedes Benz in using an Eaton/Rootes unit on= the new SLK.

Third, fuel delivery/ignition timing systems on supercharger kits are a= function of the car's existing engine management system (and cost target). = The Miata does not have a removable, re-programmable chip like a BMW's. = The only feasible solution short of replacing the entire EMS is an= adjustable fuel pressure regulator (AFPR), and it works rather well when= correctly calibrated. I check my plugs regularly and have an in-line fuel= pressure gauge. I don't believe the Mosselman kit has a chip. The ERT M3= supercharger kit does though. The detonation problems on supercharged= Miatas have nothing to do with whether it has a chip or not. It's mainly= due to too much ignition advance + reformulated gas + high underhood temps.= Many hi-perf non-supercharged cars (even with knock sensors) are having= similar problems with reformulated gas on hot days (like my JimC-chipped= M3). I use Sunoco 94 octane now exclusively in both cars and have no= problems, and I'm running 10 deg initial timing advance on the Miata (kit= recommends 6). There are boost-dependent ignition timing kits available= from MSD (retard timing as a function of sensed boost), but word is they= are a little unreliable.

Bottom line is cost: if you want to pay Turner or ERT $5000+ or so to= super/turbocharge a 318, be my guest. I am sure you will get a very good= kit and it might function perhaps $2000 better than a Sebring. You'll= still need to upgrade the exhaust, suspension, tires, brakes, etc. But= frankly, why don't you buy an M3 instead? I am very happy with the Sebring= unit on the Miata and would recommend it. But there is no hi-perf M= version of the Miata. Would I put a Sebring on a 318 or a 1.8 Z3? Hell= no, I'd buy an M3 or a 2.8 Z3 (or MZ3). Would I supercharge my M3 for $7K?= Hell no, I'd trade up to a used NSX or just buy a Kawasaki ZX-11 outright= etc. etc.

Finally, there are a lot of inexpensive tweaks/improvements one can make to= the Miata Sebring, including properly intercooling it. If you are= interested, check out

http://www.miata.net/garage/hood.html

and follow the links for really good stuff on all different types of= available Miata forced induction systems. Also, check out=20

http://www.matcoland.com/m_s_main.htm

for a cheap way to intercool a Sebring that works. It's basically a Saab= 900 intercooler slapped on with some Home Depot stuff. I am in the process= of doing this to my Miata. Total cost is around $150, including the Saab= intercooler (I bought one at a junkyard for $100). Reports are that with= no other changes, this is worth about 20-25 more peak HP, and tons of= mid-range torque. I currently have a Millen header, a high-flow cat, and= a Jackson Racing stainless exhaust on the car. In it's present state it is= probably putting out 175-180 HP at the flywheel.

Finally, the air flow meter on a 1.6L Miata only flows around 165 cfm max,= and a 6.5 lb boost supercharged 1.6L engine would like something more on= the order of 250 cfm at redline. Turns out the 86-87 RX7 AFM is a drop-in= flowing nearly that at peak. I don't know of anybody who's done this with= the Sebring, but I am going to give it a try. There are also custom= programmable fuel management systems out there with hot-wire air mass= sensors (as opposed to the flapper-door style), but they are very pricey. = I figure I can run 8 or 9 pounds of boost (using a larger crank pulley)= after I get the intercooler installed, and then I'll really need the bigger= AFM. I'll be running out of fuel though, so maybe higher-flow injectors= will be needed. Eventually I want to move to a Haltech programmable unit,= with individual throttle butterflies and an HFM, scrapping the entire stock= intake system from air filter to cylinder head.

We'll see.....

  • -Al
Unofficial Homepages: [Home] [E12] [E24] [E28] [E30] [E34] [E36] [Z3] [E39] [E46] [X5/E53] [ALL] [ Help ]