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From digest.v7.n442 Wed Oct 15 10:55:20 1997
From: albert jenab <jenab_at_his.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:27:34 -0400
Subject: comments on Sebring superchargers
Hi Ron,
Regarding your post on superchargers, I own a 91 Miata with a Sebring=
supercharger (and a 95 M3 among other things...). So I have some=
experience and a few comments. There's a lot of marketing hype from all=
manufacturers of forced induction systems, and it's difficult to sort=
through it all.
First, I disagree with your remarks on intercoolers. Lots of systems for=
many different applications don't include intercoolers and they work just=
fine. It's a matter of cost vs. power. Turner's 355 HP kit for the M3=
($5500) doesn't have an intercooler. The $7000 400HP kit does. The=
Mosselman turbo kit he offers for the 318ti 1.9 is $4500 and is=
intercooled, but uses an AFPR like the Sebring (i.e. no chip as far as I=
can tell). The Miata has almost no room under the hood for an intercooler,=
and unless you put it in front of the radiator, it doesn't do you any good=
anyway. More on this later.
And you are misinterpreting what happens on very hot days and why detonation=
can be a problem. It has nothing to do with lack of an intercoooler. =
Underhood temps on supercharged Miatas run as high as 170 degrees, worse=
with a non-insulated header and on hot days. Intercooler or not, you will=
have problems compressing air which starts out this hot. Reformulated gas=
also plays a role (see below). So the solution (for any type of forced=
induction system) is to get cooler ambient air into the engine. Hell of a=
lot cheaper than an intercooler, too. Additionally, the intake for the=
Sebring sits right by the header, so a little ingenuity and ducting is=
called for. There's almost no room under a Miata hood (did I say this=
before?).
Second, the Eaton/Rootes design may have a slightly lower thermal efficiency=
(82%) than other approaches, but who cares? It's not enough to=
substantially impact performance or reliability of a similar boost-level=
non-intercooled system, and they are relatively cheap and reliable. Either=
that or I guess those 5000HP top fuel dragster dudes don't know what=
they're doing. Neither does Mercedes Benz in using an Eaton/Rootes unit on=
the new SLK.
Third, fuel delivery/ignition timing systems on supercharger kits are a=
function of the car's existing engine management system (and cost target). =
The Miata does not have a removable, re-programmable chip like a BMW's. =
The only feasible solution short of replacing the entire EMS is an=
adjustable fuel pressure regulator (AFPR), and it works rather well when=
correctly calibrated. I check my plugs regularly and have an in-line fuel=
pressure gauge. I don't believe the Mosselman kit has a chip. The ERT M3=
supercharger kit does though. The detonation problems on supercharged=
Miatas have nothing to do with whether it has a chip or not. It's mainly=
due to too much ignition advance + reformulated gas + high underhood temps.=
Many hi-perf non-supercharged cars (even with knock sensors) are having=
similar problems with reformulated gas on hot days (like my JimC-chipped=
M3). I use Sunoco 94 octane now exclusively in both cars and have no=
problems, and I'm running 10 deg initial timing advance on the Miata (kit=
recommends 6). There are boost-dependent ignition timing kits available=
from MSD (retard timing as a function of sensed boost), but word is they=
are a little unreliable.
Bottom line is cost: if you want to pay Turner or ERT $5000+ or so to=
super/turbocharge a 318, be my guest. I am sure you will get a very good=
kit and it might function perhaps $2000 better than a Sebring. You'll=
still need to upgrade the exhaust, suspension, tires, brakes, etc. But=
frankly, why don't you buy an M3 instead? I am very happy with the Sebring=
unit on the Miata and would recommend it. But there is no hi-perf M=
version of the Miata. Would I put a Sebring on a 318 or a 1.8 Z3? Hell=
no, I'd buy an M3 or a 2.8 Z3 (or MZ3). Would I supercharge my M3 for $7K?=
Hell no, I'd trade up to a used NSX or just buy a Kawasaki ZX-11 outright=
etc. etc.
Finally, there are a lot of inexpensive tweaks/improvements one can make to=
the Miata Sebring, including properly intercooling it. If you are=
interested, check out
http://www.miata.net/garage/hood.html
and follow the links for really good stuff on all different types of=
available Miata forced induction systems. Also, check out=20
http://www.matcoland.com/m_s_main.htm
for a cheap way to intercool a Sebring that works. It's basically a Saab=
900 intercooler slapped on with some Home Depot stuff. I am in the process=
of doing this to my Miata. Total cost is around $150, including the Saab=
intercooler (I bought one at a junkyard for $100). Reports are that with=
no other changes, this is worth about 20-25 more peak HP, and tons of=
mid-range torque. I currently have a Millen header, a high-flow cat, and=
a Jackson Racing stainless exhaust on the car. In it's present state it is=
probably putting out 175-180 HP at the flywheel.
Finally, the air flow meter on a 1.6L Miata only flows around 165 cfm max,=
and a 6.5 lb boost supercharged 1.6L engine would like something more on=
the order of 250 cfm at redline. Turns out the 86-87 RX7 AFM is a drop-in=
flowing nearly that at peak. I don't know of anybody who's done this with=
the Sebring, but I am going to give it a try. There are also custom=
programmable fuel management systems out there with hot-wire air mass=
sensors (as opposed to the flapper-door style), but they are very pricey. =
I figure I can run 8 or 9 pounds of boost (using a larger crank pulley)=
after I get the intercooler installed, and then I'll really need the bigger=
AFM. I'll be running out of fuel though, so maybe higher-flow injectors=
will be needed. Eventually I want to move to a Haltech programmable unit,=
with individual throttle butterflies and an HFM, scrapping the entire stock=
intake system from air filter to cylinder head.
We'll see.....
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