From digest.v6.n243 Wed Feb 19 19:28:01 1997
From: "Carl Buckland" <buckland_at_xmission.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:40:50 +0000
Subject: Cooling Solutions for M3 Brakes(long)
From: Jeffrey Lin <jlin_at_montgomery.com>
To: "'Carl Buckland'" <buckland_at_xmission.com>,
"'Jim Mercado'" <jmercado_at_sic-em.com>,
"'Larry Seiden'" <lseiden_at_pa.hodes.com>,
<OhtobeSenna_at_aol.com>, "'Rich B.'" <rbiscevic_at_clarify.com>
To: "'Roger Racer'" <rogracer_at_aol.com>
Subject: Cooling Solutions for M3 Brakes
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:47:42 -0800
I just spoke with Korman about brakes. For Street/Track
- higher performance Pad - Ferrodo or Koman Hi Po Pad both are
- stainless brake lines
- removing brake backing plates.
- Hi po brake fluid - ATE super blue (BTW this is basically the same
stuff BMW's come with as ATE is BMW's supplier for DOT 4 fluid).
I asked about brake duct kits, they said not worthwhile, because they
prevent full steering lock, which is ok for track but not for street
and they would be to much of a pain to R&R for the track.
To those of you who tend towards the warped,
I am not an authority on brakes, but I sure am an authority on
warping rotors, having done at least 4 sets in 1 year. Here is what
- Using the right pads for the right application is a must. Race
pads for the track, street pads for the street, autocross pads for
Solo II. I use Hawk Y-5's for autocross; Performance Friction 90's
for the track; Performance Friction Z Rated for the street.
2)stainless steel lines will help you with that mushy feeling when
your brake fluid gets hot. Most are not DOT approved, for some odd
3)ATE Super Blue is GREAT stuff for any application, and it is NOT
the same as the stock M3 fluid. I am sure of this. Be sure to
thuroughly drain your lines when you change over.
4)Removing the backing plates is ok, but I think that you can do just
as well or even better by bending them out (inboard, away from the
hubs) for better air flow. If you do remove them, be careful. The
wheels bearings will probably fall apart. They don't "just come
off." If you duct, you will need the plates for something to attatch
the ducting to, and to help "box in" the hub.
5) Ducting IS the way to go. It is easy, it is cheap, and it works.
I dissagree that it will impede wheel lock, IF you use 2 1/2 "
ducting. Follow Terry D's recipe, and place the ducting way inboard.
Don't just use the old ducting hole.
Caveat: ducting is not, currently, legal in most SCCA classes. Wait
for an update on that one, but for now, it is not legal
6)Use common sense. Don't overwork your brakes, give the brakes a
break every few laps, and do a serious cool down lap and a drive down
the country road when you are through hammering them.
7)If you find yourself driving on the streets with full race pads,
brake EASY. Hot race pads are cool. Cool race pads are bad. They
will "work," but they will also gouge your rotors, make lots of
noise, and leave dirty black dust all over your que tipped Bimmer.
BTW, I used Performance Friction 90's for the first time this past
weekend, and they were sensational. Stop like an anchor, no fade,
wore like iron, quiet (except for the awful rattle that all race pads
make when the goop wears off, but no squeel), and, get this, CLEAN!
I have virtually no dust on my car or my brand new BBS RC's or RS
II's (more on those later).
8)The new, two piece floating rotors are a great improvement over the
stock M3 rotors, but they are no replacement for the whole package
that numbers 1-7 talk about. I recently tried some Brembo slotted
AND cross drilled rotors, and they seemed to be much less prone to
warpage than the stock rotors. I got 380 very hard miles on them
without warping, but I also did the other things that I talk about
here, except for ducting, which I WILL do next time.
9)Be sure to use "brake squeel goop" on the pads before installing
them. They will be quieter, run cooler, and won't rattle as much.
Race pads often don't have centering clips, and they rattle so badly
that it will sound like your whole car is falling apart. After
Buttonwillow this weekend, my brake pads were rattling, my exhaust
had a leak and was wheezing, my struts were hammered and were
banging, and my ass was dragging after pulling an all nighter on the
I-15 in bumper to bumper Pres't's day traffic. Damn I have fun!
I will repost Bob Tunnell's article on the "Broderick Brake Squeel
> >Chris is quite right. The "goop" is called CRC Disk Brake Quiet.
> >Bob Tunnell advised me recently (when I was complaining that my
> >Hawk Y-5 pads were not only screeching-worse than squealing--but
> >were also rattling, due to their lack of centering clips):
> >It really worked! No more screech, no more rattle. The stuff has
> >held up for nearly 6 weeks, and now, after a lot of really hard use
> > and sustained heat, the pads are finally starting to make noise
> >again. BE SURE to let it set up before installing the brake pads.
> Well, now it's time for an update....
> After several thousand cross country miles and hundreds of Pro Solo
> and Solo II runs the CRC "goop" has finally lost some of its
> effectiveness and the rattle has returned to one caliper. But I'm
> not discouraged -- I'm actually quite impressed with how long it
> lasted under such severe conditions. I'll probably try it again
> sometime, but first...
> At the suggestion of John Broderick (an awesome MR2 Turbo driver
> who's been killing me lately in A/Stock and owner of Mister 2
> Performance Products) I've recently used a small amount of 3M
> Weatherstrip Adhesive between the pads and caliper piston contact
> surfaces. <whispering now> I didn't even clean off the CRC stuff
> first. <G> I just applied the adhesive where I saw shiny metal, let
> it skin over (about 2 minutes), and reassembled.
> After about 60 Pro Solo and Solo II runs, and a few hundred street
> miles, still no rattles or squeals.
> John also advised, if the squealing is *really* bad, apply a
> *minuscule* amount of lithium grease to all metal-to-metal
> pad-to-caliper contact surfaces. I haven't done that yet, since the
> squeal is already gone.
> For other great ideas (John is quite an innovator) or products you
> can contact him directly at mr2_at_earthnet.net.
> Considering the added stopping power of the Hawk brakes, I for one
> am quite happy to put up with these minor inconveniences. :)
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So, there is my two (and-a-half) cents worth on brakes.
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Salt Lake City, Utah
E36 M3, #27, CSP