Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 02:21:31 -0700
From: "Greg Koenig" <gregk_at_innrspc.com>
Subject: [E36M3] <E36> Porsche/Turner Big Brakes

This is a fairly long review of Turner/Porsche Big Brakes on an E36 325is (Der Dinanstein). If you arn't interested, skip down.

After getting a nice bonus from work, I finally bit the bullet and decided to get myself a set of Porsche brakes. The kit is made by Movit in Germany (www.movit.de), distributed by Steve D at the Ultimate Garage (www.ultimategarage.com) and I got my set through Turner Motorsport (www.turnermotorsport.com). I got my kit through Turner because they had the calapers in stock, and there name engraved in the black binders looks very cool (the very kit I got is the same one pictured on there site). Personally, I didn't want "Porsche" on my car and the red calapers sort of stick out (I am not a big fan of color), however, you can order your kit in black and get whatever you want scripted on the calapers. I really wish they came in Silver (an option on Porsches), and I would have gladly paid an extra coupel of hundred for this option. I measured my current settup for clearence. They say you need 62mm of backspacing minimum, but I would recommend you make that minimum about 65 (just to be on the safe side). I had 61mm with Dinan/Fikse wheels and Dinan 3/8" wheel spacers (pet peve of mine, I wish Dinan would provide hardware and fasteners in metric instead of standard), so with the kit, I also got some H&R wheel spacers (15mm).
After some problems with UPS, I finally got the huge box of stuff. With the kit, I also got some Kmac adjustable camber plates which I have yet to install, and 2 liters of Ate Blue. Doug was also cool enough to throw in a TMS T-shirt and a TMS note pad. When I first picked up the calaper, I was amazed. These things are HUGE! The rotor is also impressive, but when put up next to an M3 floating rotor, they arn't that much bigger, however, the attention to detail that Porsche puts into these rotors and calapers is second to none. Since Movit does not make the calapers and rotors (Brembo makes them to Porsche specs, and Porsche assembles the parts to control quality, and it shows when compared to the Brembo kits I have scene, there is a quality differene thanks to our friends in Stuttguart), I examined the components Movit makes on there CNC. The hardware provided is all 12.9 grade (highest quality) and is magnificent. The brake lines are made by Fischer of Germany, and the quality was just as good as my English Goodrich lines). I got the brackets (shipped from Germany) on Friday and they were the part I was most concerned about because most of the kits I have scene use wimpy brackets. These steel brackets are beefy as hell. Nothing is going to bust these brackets! All in all, the quality of the kit is enough that I have no trouble trusting my life to any one of those parts. Installing the kit took some doing, about 5 hours of time. Though the instructions were good, they did not point out that it is necessary to cut a couple of the bolts, and also grind the rest. About an hour of our time installing the kit came from our trying to avoid cutting (you should avoid cutting stuff unless it is absolutely necessary). If they instructions would have included that little fact, it would have been very nice. Once everything was on, we stepped back and looked... These things are very wicked. They look ultra cool. I needent say more. We did the normal brake in. We noticed that there is a slight vibration in the steering wheel above about 60mph. Either the rotors are out of balance or (what we think is probably the reason) one of my wheel weights got knocked off. Any way it goes, we think that the problem will be solved with either new rotors or rebalanced wheels. All in all, I don't really care about a little wheel vibration because when you stand on the brakes, you don't care! Now, I have a 325, and I was expecting sort of M3 brake tendencies. I like M3 brakes, but I think they have one major problem and that is a very severe bite when you first touch the pedal. I think after you get used to it, there Ok, but I like more progressive pedal feel. The Porsche ones start off very light, but the more you press on them, the better they get.

Greg...nice write-up. A couple of points.

First, the rotors & calipers.
Brembo does not make the rotors, Porsche has these made in Germany by a local supplier, perhaps the same company that makes the floating rotors for BMW. Brembo cuts weight out of the circumference to balance their rotors...Porsche and BMW (at least on the M3 cars) use different weight clip on springs on the inner veins. Brembo does make the calipers but they do to Porsche specs...ie, the through bolts are increased from 8mm to 12mm and the pistons are all properly sealed to ensure long road life. Movit does have input in the way the calipers come...they receive them from Porsche undrilled so they can be properly set up by Movit's CNC equipment as trailing calipers instead of leading ones that you would buy out of the box through your Porsche dealer. This is very important!

Second...you now have fixed front calipers vs the original floating (single piston) calipers that came on your car. These will be sensitive to wheel balance issues....I've only had a person have rotor balance problems and these were a set that must have been put back on the shelf after some dealer mechanic pulled the balance springs out of both rotors (person was Chris Turrisi here in NY)...I always check rotors for balance springs before they go out and I know yours had them. Try rebalancing the front wheels and check the tires for irregular wear that could cause balance issues.

Third...you probably had some thickness washers left over as you chose to cut the caliper bolts rather than shim them. The washers are to be used at the head of the bolt to keep the bolt from bottoming out against the knuckle (kingpin).

Fourth....regarding your camber adjustment. We've had good luck with 1-1.5 degrees negative camber...too much negative camber reduces your contact patch and the effectiveness of the braking. You need to put all that clamping force to the road via your tires.

Finally....check the installation in about 500 miles. I'm sure you had to do some grinding on the knuckle to get the caliper bracket to fit securely. If the bracket does not fit properly, this will have a tendency to cock the caliper in or out and resulting in uneven contact of the pad against the rotor. You should pull the pads in about 500 miles (sooner if there are obvious problems) and check them for even wear (ie, look for high spots where the pad is not touching the rotor)...if there is a problem, go back with an angle die grinder and a nice carbide bit and take a little more off the knuckle to fine tune the fit.

Enjoy the brakes............Steve

(PS- to folks on the digest....my comments above to Greg K. are applicable to other (fixed caliper) big brake setups, whether they be Stillen, Wilwood, Redline, etc.)