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supercharger -centrifugal |
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idanity
Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 3097 Location: N.W.U.S.A.
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Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: superchargers anyone |
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i know, this is the "purist" site and all, but i like you guys the best.
does anyone run a supercharger (or has before)
any advice.
i just want faster response from the get go, and not so much pulse- thrust like a turbo..
ive done lots of interest on the tubo, but for light to light, and introduction into boost, i think the best thing is supercharger...(not always redlining, normal weekend street )
maybe turbo later, but after full rebuild or w/new car built for a turbo setup..(low compression) _________________ .......... |
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Tn325I
Joined: 23 Sep 2002 Posts: 212 Location: SE US
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Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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I run an Eaton M90 on my car(the E30). Did a lot of head work to maximize air flo.. Intake and headers. I love it. Hope I never have to go back to NA. _________________
The original point and click interface was a Smith & Wesson. |
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peerless
Joined: 12 Nov 2003 Posts: 1721 Location: Orange County, Ca
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:35 am Post subject: |
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Centrifugal will be the easiest to setup. You can also go without a intercooler since you will most likely be under 10psi. Even then you can use methanol injection, chemical intercooling.
I have never had a S/C car but I have been for a ride in few of them. It works just fine. _________________ Robert
E30 Repair and Maintenance Services
714-398-8405 |
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wazzu70
Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 838 Location: Issaquah, WA
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Ive had a car in the past that was supercharged. It had the Eaton M90 (also known as the Heaton due to the high IATs it creates) and the throttle response was nice, although revs were limited by the supercharger. Biggest issue with these is getting a drive belt connected to your crank pulley, you'll need to make something custom. Also mounting bracketry and adding a tensions puller can be issues. I really dont think a supercharger is any easier. I would also go with a centrifugal or a lysholm if I was going this route. Eatons just arent good enough for it to be worth it IMO.
Also, you can run a turbo on the stock compression of a "i" motor no problem. Just keep it around 10psi and you would be fine. I think its actually easier to go this route.
Both systems would require a stand alone management system IMO to get it to run properly. It can run, but not properly without one even though people will say otherwise...its just not true. _________________ -Nick
1984 BMW 325e
1991 BMW 325i
1976 Honda CB400F Super Sport
"The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten" |
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idanity
Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 3097 Location: N.W.U.S.A.
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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thanks everyone.
i suppose i should just get the megasquirt setup next (build my own) b.c i just love to pass, and cannot be happy when /if a mazda passes me.noone has yet but its b/c i live in the P.N.W.
i read on the pelican page about this, and they suggested the s.c, but as you mentioned, the pulleys are just not available.
maybe i will just rebuild another m20 with very low comp. (wishing i had a garage again) or go test drive a 1 series....
o how i love the e30, and yet wish it was twice as fast. _________________ .......... |
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tncean
Joined: 26 Feb 2005 Posts: 1652 Location: Chattanooga, Tn.
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe you need a Nitrous Oxide system? Turn on at will, esp when those pesky Mazdas get in front of you.
t |
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wazzu70
Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 838 Location: Issaquah, WA
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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What CR are you planning on lowering the M20 to? 8.5 over 8.8? Please. you wont even notice the difference. The custom pistons are nice because you can get them with a thicker crown to help prevent melting in the case of tuning errors, and the material dissipates heat better. Overall though, you can just use your regular internals. The BMW stuff is quite stout and as long as you keep the boost moderate you shouldn't have an issue. The thing that kills engines is improper tuning, not necessarily boost pressure unless it is really extreme. Different internals cant make up for a bad tune. Might as well practice on the cheap stuff _________________ -Nick
1984 BMW 325e
1991 BMW 325i
1976 Honda CB400F Super Sport
"The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten" |
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idanity
Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 3097 Location: N.W.U.S.A.
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:46 am Post subject: |
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thanks everyone...
Tn325I wrote: | I run an Eaton M90 on my car(the E30). Did a lot of head work to maximize air flo.. Intake and headers. I love it. Hope I never have to go back to NA. |
would love to hear more about it (pix, specs, and costs too )
peerless wrote: | Centrifugal will be the easiest you can use methanol injection, chemical intercooling.
. |
haven't heard of that "methonal inj." (sounds more dangerous)..but i have heard of dry ice on the aim to keep it cold...(never seen it though)
wazzu70 wrote: | Ive had a car in the past that was supercharged. the Eaton M90 and the throttle response was nice
Also, you can run a turbo on the stock compression of a "i" motor no problem. Just keep it around 10psi and you would be fine. I think its actually easier to go this route.
Both systems would require a stand alone management system IMO to get it to run properly. It can run, but not properly without one even though people will say otherwise...its just not true. |
ive read (found) a website that packages all the parts needed to build my own stand alone system...going that route (b/c i can build it at work)
and
there are a few local e30s running around here w/turbos
tncean wrote: | Maybe you need a Nitrous Oxide system? Turn on at will, esp when those pesky Mazdas get in front of you.
t |
ya know, i have very little knowledge on NoS...(besides the movies), but i know i want...nay, need more power on the wheels. (driver ed too)
wazzu70 wrote: | What CR are you planning on lowering the M20 to?.
,,,
The thing that kills engines is improper tuning, not necessarily boost pressure unless it is really extreme. Different internals cant make up for a bad tune. Might as well practice on the cheap stuff |
i am on the fence of the 320i, and my cabrio for this mod...(selling the cab is an option for funds on another e30).
i read that detonation was the #1 killer on induction engines...
but i dont have a plan yet..i love used stuff, (and its price) but i must start sometime..just not sure on what....
the s.c's are very spendy. i thought they were much less than turbos.
i now have the time and some cash saved up for this project, and i think by next summer, will have the body/ and eng in the shape i drew up...
i wanted to work on the body, but im getting the blues by all this rain.
i actually got the tires re-balanced today and reinstalled them in the 6pm downpour...drives perfect again (rotated them, and got a shimmy at 55-58 (*now gone..but new tires soon)
also,
if you guys know of more ways to fly faster...or are doing any turbo work, and need a hand, let me know. even if i just take pix...itll be worth it to me...so much easier after ive seen it done... _________________ .......... |
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wazzu70
Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 838 Location: Issaquah, WA
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: |
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If you are going stand alone, consider VEMS instead of MS. MS is just low grade components. Sure it works, but, its not really "reliable grade". I'm well aware of a lot of the turbo cars around here and what systems they are running on. Most people around here use MS, but that's just because its so cheap to get them up and going, not because its better. Just don't get confused as to the reasoning of the selection.
For an easy read, Corky Bell's Maximum Boost provides some good introductory information to turbo/supercharging your car. It leaves a lot to be desired, but its still good to get the wheels in your head moving. Also, its much cheaper than buying parts. _________________ -Nick
1984 BMW 325e
1991 BMW 325i
1976 Honda CB400F Super Sport
"The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten" |
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idanity
Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 3097 Location: N.W.U.S.A.
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:23 am Post subject: |
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thanks.
i will try to get a copy from the library.
there is a few more books, but sofar, mostly drag=s.c. and basic layout books showing pics on it, rather than how-to's _________________ .......... |
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cmcon98
Joined: 13 Nov 2002 Posts: 1844 Location: Boston
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Wouldn't an S50/52 swap be cheaper than building up an M20 and engine management system for super or turbocharging? I have a friend who did the swap (on a 4-door E30!), and total cost was around $5k. He paid $3500 for the engine, harness, and ZF tranny, and it cost another $1500 for stuff like exhaust, A/C lines, new mounts, E34 oil pan, etc.
May be something to consider if you're just looking for decent (but not extraordinary) HP and originality isn't important. _________________ Cirrusblau '88 325iC 5-speed
Cosmosschwartz '99 M3 'vert 5-speed |
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wazzu70
Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 838 Location: Issaquah, WA
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Yes a 24v swap is a nice way to add power and some low end grunt (from the 3.0/3.2). It also has factory reliability if you use the original ECU....thats nice.
Some people just like to dink with stuff though. I dont think a lot of people take into consideration that when the tuning is up to YOU there is a lot mroe room for error and a lot more days when its not running good enough to drive. Luckily Idanity has another vehicle for daily use as far as I know. _________________ -Nick
1984 BMW 325e
1991 BMW 325i
1976 Honda CB400F Super Sport
"The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten" |
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idanity
Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 3097 Location: N.W.U.S.A.
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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wazzu70 wrote: |
Some people just like to dink with stuff though. .......
Luckily Idanity has another vehicle for daily use as far as I know. |
yes, and YES...lol
i thought it would be much easier, but in comparison it is pretty easy (in whats been done sofar)...
i have no intention on swapping out the engine..but want to learn the "boost" ins and outs...w/out wrecking anything....
i actually bought my 1st truck up here b/c of the carbio and the engine...(400dollars for that thing) and never been the same since...
gotta have a space truck on hand...so helpful _________________ .......... |
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idanity
Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 3097 Location: N.W.U.S.A.
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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wazzu70 wrote: |
For an easy read, Corky Bell's Maximum Boost provides some good introductory information to turbo/supercharging your car. |
got the book request in, due to nothing in any library system.
it may help if anyone else could also request it.
heres the info needed
library account/ login. to this page =public library
ISBN or ISSN: . -10: 0-8376-0160-6
Title:* .................................... Maximum Boost-Designing, Testing, and Installing Turbocharger Systems
Author: ........................... ........Corky Bell
Publisher: ............. .......................Bentley
When was the item published? .......... 1997
this book costs over a hundred dollars new from a trusted place, and i just read some reviews, and will not be buying a book online...ever... _________________ .......... |
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wazzu70
Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 838 Location: Issaquah, WA
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-Turbocharger-Engineering-Performance/dp/0837601606/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220548718&sr=8-1
The book should be able to be had for quite cheap. Also, not something I believe in, but I hear rumors that you can get a PDF copy of the book for free online. Personally I feel its appropriate today the author their dues so they can keep producing books....but not everyone has that viewpoint. e30tech has info on the book in PDF form if you prefer to go that route. I got mine from Amazon no problem and think its easily worth the cost. _________________ -Nick
1984 BMW 325e
1991 BMW 325i
1976 Honda CB400F Super Sport
"The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten" |
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