Unofficialbmw.com

[TnSlim]

How long before Rather/Brokaw/Jennings report this? I've been hearing since last August that Saddam paid arms smugglers $30 million USD to move his unconventional weapons stockpile into what is probably the most heavily fortified place in Arabia -- Lebanon's Bekaa Valley. Could the U.N. finally be getting a clue? Naaaaaaahhh!
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UN inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before war and after

SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Friday, June 11, 2004

The United Nations has determined that Saddam Hussein shipped weapons of mass destruction components as well as medium-range ballistic missiles before, during and after the U.S.-led war against Iraq in 2003.

The UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission briefed the Security Council on new findings that could help trace the whereabouts of Saddam's missile and WMD program.

The briefing contained satellite photographs that demonstrated the speed with which Saddam dismantled his missile and WMD sites before and during the war. Council members were shown photographs of a ballistic missile site outside Baghdad in May 2003, and then saw a satellite image of the same location in February 2004, in which facilities had disappeared.

UNMOVIC acting executive chairman Demetrius Perricos told the council on June 9 that "the only controls at the borders are for the weight of the scrap metal, and to check whether there are any explosive or radioactive materials within the scrap," Middle East Newsline reported.

"It's being exported," Perricos said after the briefing. "It's being traded out. And there is a large variety of scrap metal from very new to very old, and slowly, it seems the country is depleted of metal."

"The removal of these materials from Iraq raises concerns with regard to proliferation risks," Perricos told the council. Perricos also reported that inspectors found Iraqi WMD and missile components shipped abroad that still contained UN inspection tags.

He said the Iraqi facilities were dismantled and sent both to Europe and around the Middle East. at the rate of about 1,000 tons of metal a month. Destionations included Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey.

The Baghdad missile site contained a range of WMD and dual-use components, UN officials said. They included missile components, reactor vessel and fermenters – the latter required for the production of chemical and biological warheads.

"It raises the question of what happened to the dual-use equipment, where is it now and what is it being used for," Ewen Buchanan, Perricos's spokesman, said. "You can make all kinds of pharmaceutical and medicinal products with a fermenter. You can also use it to breed anthrax."

The UNMOVIC report said Iraqi missiles were dismantled and exported to such countries as Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey. In the Dutch city of Rotterdam, an SA-2 surface-to-air missile, one of at least 12, was discovered in a junk yard, replete with UN tags. In Jordan, UN inspectors found 20 SA-2 engines as well as components for solid-fuel for missiles.

"The problem for us is that we don't know what may have passed through these yards and other yards elsewhere," Buchanan said. "We can't really assess the significance and don't know the full extent of activity that could be going on there or with others of Iraq's neighbors."

UN inspectors have assessed that the SA-2 and the short-range Al Samoud surface-to-surface missile were shipped abroad by agents of the Saddam regime. Buchanan said UNMOVIC plans to inspect other sites, including in Turkey.

In April, International Atomic Energy Agency director-general Mohammed El Baradei said material from Iraqi nuclear facilities were being smuggled out of the country.
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_1.html

[Greenhornet84]

Slim,
Two thoughts:
1. In the 1991 Gulph War Saadam sent 200-300 military Jets to Iran so that they wouldn't be destroyed by a superior force. Iran agreed to protect those Jets and then never gave them back to Saadam. There really is no honor among thieves.
2. Sadaam rarely slept in one of his mansions. He had 5 shifts of Pretorian Guard who were rotated every 24 hours. These guards didn't know where Sadaam was sleeping that night until the Sun went down.
The odd thing about a Pretarium guard is that there is always an extra guard on duty. Thier duty was to kill the guard in charge if they failed to protect the Regent.
Even Sadaam's sons didn't know where thier father was to be overnight. Not even the Whole Pretorian Guard would know by nightfall and then only the 2 guard grooups on duty, not all five.
Mark

[Greenhornet84]

Slim,
Got close but missed the thread there.
Does anybody believe that after safeguarding his Jets in Iran that he never got back, and after living a skitish life where he would not even tell his sons where he would spend the night, do you believe that he would give WMD to a neighbor who could use them against him? It's compleetely out of character.
Mark

[TnSlim]

1) Saddam had six Muslim neighbors from whom to choose in 1991. What genius did he demonstrate when he sent his planes to the one neighbor out of those six with whom he’d just had an 8-year war? Paranoia doesn’t transform you into a genius, it just makes you paranoid.

2) This time, Saddam didn’t drop in on the neighbors unannounced and ask them to keep his bug bombs while he went off for a long weekend in Atlantic City. It’s reported that he hired a professional arms smuggler, one Zu Alhema al-Shaleesh (or possibly his nephew, Assef), to safeguard them, probably stipulating that they be taken to the Bekaa Valley.

If this is true, it would seem to indicate that Dubya did not exaggerate, invent, mislead, deceive, prevaricate or otherwise lie when he listed unconventional weapons among the reasons for the 2nd Gulf War.

[Greenhornet84]

OK.I'll play. Did Dubba check the Becca VaMarkley?

[panzerkeil302]

"The problem for us is that we don't know what may have passed through these yards and other yards elsewhere,"

We need a smoking gun...this aint it.

I bet Iran is sheitting its pants today. Sounds like they've been working on the big one.....we'll need a draft to pull this invasion off.

[MattB]

Draft?
I think instead, if we decide to take Iran, we'd need to grow a backbone and a brain and say to hell with a land invasion and just send in the B-52's.

In 10 years or 20 years we'll know all the little details that are eluding us today.
However, my personal thoughts are that we'll have WW3 by then.

[panzerkeil302]

Yup, you're right...send in the b-52's, they'll SING them to death.

[Greenhornet84]

You guy sare over racting. We're in a hell of a mess and we have to clean up what this administration has done.
We have to transfer soverign authority to the Iraqi people and then stay there and protect whatever dovernment they chose. This will cost blood and treasure but George Bush started a war and we have to set those people right.
What if they have an election and elect an Islamic (religionist) government?
We then have to go back to Afganistan and finish thatjob. The legitimate war. The war againt the Talaban and Osamma Bin Laden.

No one knows how this election is goingto come out in November. Never seen a closer race. Would that Bush had stayedin Afganistan and really finished that war, elimitated the war lords and given Karsid a half a chance, Bushes approval ratings would be about 80%. This country loves a war winner.
You guys talk about Iran anf North Korea because we're the remaining superpower. Fat lot of good it did us in Iraq.
This war is going to change thr numbers in our military. The STOP LOSS order isn't going to affect too many Regular Army guys or Marines but it's having a devasting effect on the Guard and the Reserves. These guys already did thier year and they have wives and kids at home.
Watch the re-enlistment rate after this war.
Mark

[panzerkeil302]

I think I agree with what you said? This is going to affect regular enlisted in all branches, not just the weekend warriors.

I pray to God our troops come home soon..the sooner the better.

[MattB]

I dunno bout that.

I've had more people that I know personally go out and enlist in the last year than I ever expected.

One friend here at work had a master's degree and entered upper management a few months back and decided to drop it all and enlist... ENLIST, not as an "O" because he's 33! He went into the army to be an intel-ops guy.

Hell... i'm thinking of going back in as an O after my degree is done if they'll waver me for my age. Won't do the navy again, but the army's Alpha teams need engineers... and i've always wanted to go to jump school.

I think the military is gonna lose alot of the fair weather warriors. The ones that went in because it'd pay for school or because they thought they'd pick up chicks in a uniform. In short, the military is losing the ones who were only in it for what they could get out of it.
On the other hand, they're picking up the ones who really give a damn about this country and want to serve. I think it's more of a cleaning out of the riff-raff than an overall loss.

Hmm... reminds me of the klinton to Bush changeover in the oval office.

[panzerkeil302]

The facts (from DOD sources) appear to disagree with you, MattB

Branches have instituted a "stop loss" on regular enlisted who's contract is up...meaning, those who wanted to go home, and had served the term, can not. Applications for waivers are over 60% - 60% of the regular enlisted (not the weekend warriors, mind you) who were supposed to go home, want to LEAVE...see article below;
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/milarticles/blarstoploss.htm

In addition, it also appears the number of enlistee's is dropping - the article below is from last September, but a different AFN article reports "dramatic" decreases in enlistment.
http://www.dailyfreepress.com/news/2003/09/19/News/Army-Enlistment.Down-470697.shtml

This article below is a little more recent, 4/7;
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/DailyNews/iraq_militaryrecruits_030407.html

Unilaterally, every branch is seeing a slow down of enlisted, according to the government.

Some speculate that as the "link" between Osama and Saddam weakens, more troops are questioning WHY they are dying in the sand. We need to “plant” some WOMD evidence, or start a draft.

Maybe the government’s numbers are wrong? If you have a link that reports otherwise, I’d love to read it.

Matt, if you really give a damn about this country, the most important thing for you to do right now...is enlist.

[ 06-17-2004: Message edited by: panzerkeil302 ]

[MattB]

maybe.
I've never been one to watch the numbers really closely, because they usually are reported to reflect what the report wants them to reflect.

I've been wrong before though, but my gut tells me our military will get strengthened overall because of what's going on right now. If not in numbers, then in quality of people serving.

It would be interesting to see what would come of a draft. Would we have a whole new generation of wacko hippies marching on Washington like their fathers did in the 60's? Would another generation follow in the footsteps of they who, in my opinion, have spent the last 40 years trying to rot, corrupt, and take this country under?

I'll move this to another post.

[panzerkeil302]

No, I think you are correct - the "flakes" want out (the ones who's 4 year enlistment was up) are trying to leave Iraq en masse. How dare they serve thier obligation and try to leave!

Matt, I think now, maybe more than ever, you, and people like you need to rise up, and enlist...I can understand you wanting to wait, but your country needs you now.

Hey, you could be the guy who finds WOMD in Iraq!!!! Now wouldn't that be something!

[panzerkeil302]

"I've never been one to watch the numbers really closely, because they usually are reported to reflect what the report wants them to reflect."

err, ummm....these are DOD numbers...are you saying they have scewed them to reflect a poor enlistment? Maybe it's a ploy to get more American to enlist! Very clever conspiracy you have uncovered.