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[SaturdayNightBimmer]

I know it's the lounge, so here goes...

Now these animal al Qaeda bastards behead a 26 year old American guy on camera. Yet here in the States we're VERY concerned with 700 photos of "naked pyramids" and "penis pointing" with the insurgents, from the civilian contractor prison guards and the MP's. Cripes, worse sh*t happens in fraternities and sports hazing! Photos shouldn't have been taken, and maybe the behavior should have been different. Not condoning it, but really....was it that bad?

Why is America so upset about these pics of guards laughing and pointing at naked insurgent detainees? What about the killing and burning, dismemberment, and dragging and hanging of the four contractors in Fallujah! Danny Pearl? This 26 yr old beheaded electrical contractor? Why are we not outraged at these horrible public deaths?

Believe me, I'm for American forces 100% wherever they go to defend freedom, but it just seems to get worse and worse.

1.) Can we come out of this with the original objective achieved?

2.) How much more friggin biased is the information coming to us from the media?

3.) Can America get a little tougher and focus in on "what they're doing to us" and not "what we're doing to them?"

Have we forgotten that these insurgents want to kill us? Don't think for a minute that if we turned our backs, somebody wouldn't pick up an RPG and blast away at a convoy, killing 20 year old boys fresh out of boot camp.

I'm outraged that these insurgents and al Qaeda are such sick barbarians, but at the same time I'm also annoyed that our military guys are getting killed left and right.

What is the next step here??

[ 05-11-2004: Message edited by: SaturdayNightBimmer ]

[bkbrouwer]

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"what we're doing to them?"

We invaded their country. We drew first blood. You would be pissed off too if someone invaded our country because we have weapons of mass destruction, and we DO actually have weapons of mass destruction.

[SaturdayNightBimmer]

So we shouldn't have liberated the Iraqi's from Saddam Hussein's regime?

[bbbidit]

The next step ?? Quit sending more troops over there.... and get the ones that are there, back home. I'm getting increasingly more frustrated with this no-win situation.
Do I think what they did was wrong ??? no. Was it stupid to take photos and video of it? yes


I still think North Korea is more of a threat to the world than Iraq...but Bush is determined to finish what his daddy couldnt... no matter how long or how many American lives are lost.... stubborn SOB !!!

[ 05-11-2004: Message edited by: Brians 88325e ]

[Roadstergal]

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Originally posted by SaturdayNightBimmer:
So we shouldn't have liberated the Iraqi's from Saddam Hussein's regime?

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We shouldn't have supported his regime back in the '80s when we knew Iraq was using chemical weapons on its own people.

We should have supported the UN. Patience isn't fun, but often it's the least bloody way to pressure someone out.

A Republican congressman stated that the evdence that Bush has seen that we haven't shows rape and murder. Funny antics, to you?

[Fred Mac]

My country, because I do not know where you are from, has never just attacked anyone else for no reason. Only after being attacked have we done so. There is one thing we have done, Take the fight to their soil. We now have had a young man who only wanted to help some of his fellow humans better their life and look what it got him. Go to www.schnittshow.com and tell me any person in the world deserves treatment like that. Also tell me how a few moments of embarrassment is enough to slowly cut someone’s head off. Listen to the sounds, It's not pretty. I'm one that does not need constant reminder of what we are doing. We are doing what we do best. Helping those who can't or won't help themselves. As much as they don't want to admit it, ask the French, ask Great Britain, ask Italy, I hope you get my point. If not, that's ok, I know my Dad live a life of hell with the memories of WW2 for you. Do you want to know the best part of him? He would gladly do it all over again. WE are at a crossroads. The enemy we have will not stop if we come home. The will continue to attack and kill. I just pray you and yours will be spared the pain. If you are, Thank the next serviceman or servicewoman you see.

[SaturdayNightBimmer]

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Originally posted by Roadstergal:
A Republican congressman stated that the evidence that Bush has seen that we haven't, shows rape and murder. Funny antics, to you?

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JA, not to me, but neither is slowly cutting off civilian American heads on camera and claiming "the worst is yet to come for the U.S." Is that justified behavior to you?

War is ugly. Things happen that aren't PC, and aren't human, things that we can't grasp. At the same time, when I see Iraqi insurgents parading around in the streets with "heads on sticks," dragging American torsos, and CELEBRATING, well.... I don't feel bad at all for a few humiliated insurgents. If there was rape in the detention center, what can you say? That's jail for you. Bad sh*t happens there. I'm not condoning it, but stating that bad things CAN happen to bad people in a bad place.

How many anal rapes equals 2 "on camera beheadings" and "torsos hanging from a bridge?"

[bkbrouwer]

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We should have supported the UN. Patience isn't fun, but often it's the least bloody way to pressure someone out.

Exactly.

I don't believe for a minute that Bush took us to war to "bring freedom and democracy to the Iraqi people". If we are going to bring freedom and democracy to countries who don't have it, we got a hell of a lot of countries to invade.

Don't get me wrong, I have a hell of a lot of respect for people in the military. I'm glad they are there to do their jobs. But I think they should be a little pissed about what their President got them into.

And always try to remember. Just because we think our country is great, it doesn't mean that other people want what we got! Not everyone is jealous of our SUV's, high stress jobs, high divorce rates, and cell phones. Bad does come with the good.

[Fred Mac]

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But I think they should be a little pissed about what their President got them into.

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I work with the military daily and you couldn't be more wrong. We have some Army reserve folks guarding our gates at Randolph AFB. They are pissed, but for having to gate guard. They want to get over and do the job they were trained to do. Most all servicefolks love Bush. They tell me it's nice to have President they can respect. Why do you think the Dems didn't want to count the military absentee vote in Fla?

[TnSlim]

Who among those prisoners was killed, maimed or even scarred? So why are we even talking about toppling the best SecDef since Al Haig? The 7 to 12 to 15 responsible sumb*tches should be drawn and quartered, but I’ve seen no evidence that anyone else was involved, much less responsible. If the evidence incriminating them turns up, they get the same.

[Mike 91 318ic]

I would love to voice my opinions on this matter but I feel I would offend a lot of people... One thing I will say is why can't we all get along, what causes people to do such things...

M

[bkbrouwer]

I must admit, I stared long and hard at Fred Mac's link above, and could not bring myself to click on it. Somethings are better left unseen.

[bbbidit]

Mike --

come on man ... let us know whats on your mind... I think we can handle it .....

[Roadstergal]

quote:

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Originally posted by SaturdayNightBimmer:
War is ugly. Things happen that aren't PC, and aren't human, things that we can't grasp. At the same time, when I see Iraqi insurgents parading around in the streets with "heads on sticks," dragging American torsos, and CELEBRATING, well.... I don't feel bad at all for a few humiliated insurgents. If there was rape in the detention center, what can you say? That's jail for you. Bad sh*t happens there. I'm not condoning it, but stating that bad things CAN happen to bad people in a bad place.

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So bad things happen, but that's only a problem when they happen to "us"?

It's OK for an organized army to rape its prisoners? You're fine and happy with that? If so, expect the same behavior when another army captures US militia members. The Geneva Convention was intended as a pact between nations to ensure the decent treatment of soldiers. If we throw it out so cavilirly, expect others to do so.

The killers in the video were not a member of a milita. They were vigilantes (and you know how I feel about those). They should be criminally prosecuted. But in their actions, they represented only themselves, not any nation or government that had hired and taken responsibility for them.

There was another war recently when proper treatment of prisoners was thrown out on too many occasions. And you remember what a great page in history Vietnam was. And how, once we withdrew, the reason for our invasion in the first place was shown to be bunk.

Abuse of prisoners is a knee-jerk reaction of a desperate force. Have we sunk so low? Are we that scared?

[Roadstergal]

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Originally posted by Tennessee Slim:
So why are we even talking about toppling the best SecDef since Al Haig?

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Dude, you've been smoking some good stuff. Lay off a bit, though, and don't drive on it.