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ExemptX2000 · Joined: 22 Sep 2002 Posts: 458 Location: Alexandria, LA

And ****e is?

patrick66 · Joined: 10 Dec 2002 Posts: 623 Location: Oklahoma

Eric, the Constitution covers US citizens in the US, NOT foreign nationals OR US citizens that are considered enemy combatants in a war. This is defined in the Geneva Conventions, and they are not to be confused with prisoners of war (there IS a difference!) The enemy combatants are locked up, in military custody until whenever, where they belong!

We can't be giving Constitutional protections to illegal aliens, enemy combatants, et al. We can NOT treat this war as a "law enforcement" matter. We must seek out the enemy and defeat them however possible and wherever they lurk.

They wouldn't hesitate to kill you, me, our families, our friends, and every other "infidel" until they declare the United States an Islamic theocracy. Don't think that'll happen? Just look at the American people's lack of a "will to fight" just since last week's revelations of "abuse" by US forces of those poor Iraqi prisoners. Waah. My heart bleeds for the little enemy bastards.

Keep in mind the words of the sadistic, evil former head af Hamas, Hussein Masawi, who said, quote "we are not fighting you so that you will offer us something. We are fighting to ELIMINATE YOU!"

Negotiate with these murderous thugs? A few MOAB's dropped liberally (no pun intended) across the Middle East will definitely get their attention! Remember, the Muslim world considers this THEIR version of the Crusades! Only a total and complete victory on OUR part will ensure security and freedom for our kids and grandkids!

Nukes worked in Japan...nukes (or MOAB's) will work today! I want victory for the US. Do you???

bluefury · Joined: 01 Oct 2002 Posts: 757 Location: DFW Texas

You're right Patrick, I just read that they're classified as unlawful enemy combatants. Which means they have no protections under the Third Geneva Convention.

I also read, "Capturing and detaining a U.S. citizen, or any other human being, is not an activity DoD takes lightly. As in other armed conflicts in which our Nation has been engaged, the detention of enemy combatants serves a vitally important protective function. Equally important, however, the deliberate, conscientious, and humane manner in which we designate and detain enemy combatants reflects our values and character as a Nation."

Guess we dropped the ball on the second sentence.

MattB · Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 1633 Location: Lakeland, FL

sorry, i put in the improper name for poop with an E on the end of it.

The board must have automatically put asterisks in for it.

Anyway, my point is, Kerry can't take a stance on an issue as simple as whether he's a liberal or not. The guys a jellyfish.

patrick66 · Joined: 10 Dec 2002 Posts: 623 Location: Oklahoma

Amen, brother Bill!

Billo · Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 11:20 am Post subject: WHO DO WE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT??

Hey,

Well you know how much I love to type and I've held off as long as I could. Patrick, I’m provoked (by the way, you spoke truth). As I read this post about voting, it seems to go all around the pasture. It seems to be the eternal struggle about if farmer Jones has 3 apples and 2 pears, how many shingles does it take to roof his barn? There are no defining parameters to most of the arguments here. It’s almost impossible to have an opinion that is ‘objective’. Opinion indicates subjectivity. I do have a few questions to help me understand what we’re talking about here. First, let’s see a show of hands for those who like living in the United States. Ok, for those of you with your hands down, why don’t you go somewhere that’s better?
Now, for those of you who stayed, how many like being free? What is your definition of freedom? Unfortunately, this country has changed the definition of freedom to tolerance. There will be a time where the only intolerable offence will be intolerance (a form of anarchy). What are you willing to give up for freedom? For those of you who have served this country in some form of the service, the answer is: YOUR LIFE. Thank you for that. For those of you who don’t think we should fight for freedom, why does the word ‘submission’ bother you so? Without freedom, you will submit to anything anyone tells you and you will like it. But wait, there’s that spirit of rebellion that is instilled within us all. Back to the president... When we attacked Iraq, 76% of those polled were 100% behind the president. Why have ½ of those polled changed their mind? Let’s review some things to get up to date.

We attacked Iraq because:

a) WMD (we know they existed, or at least Iraq wished they existed or could get their hands on some to kill mass amounts of infidels)
b) GB Jr. was just finishing the job his dad started. (That would be; we marched within a few miles of Baghdad and then stopped during the Gulf War. Remember, we did this because we told Saudi Arabia that we wouldn’t mess up Sadam’s nest and we kept our word. We needed Saudi Arabia at the time to launch attacks from. Then after 9/11, word came that SA had funded the terrorists that flew planes into the twin towers. This time, against all odds, (with the help of Great Britton) we decided to do it ourselves)
c) Why can’t we all just get along?

What is war?

a) It’s a thing where two entities battle each other to the death (take no prisioners).
b) It’s a thing where you go in and kill Wohami Sr. but not his wife and little Wohami Jr. (and brothers) I’m sure Jr will understand how his dad deserved to die and will harbor no malice against who ever killed him. Or will he grow up and be willing to strap on a bomb jacket and walk onto a bus and destroy everything in sight because ‘death to the infidels’? (Sorry, that should be another question)
c) Why can’t we all just get along?

Does anyone remember WWII? That was a war were:

a) The Japanese drove up into our back yard and killed every living creature they could possibly kill?
b) Just a testing ground for the new and improved nuclear weapons we were developing?
c) Why can’t we all just get along?

How is what the Japanese did to start WWII and attacking Iraq similar?

a) It’s not.
b) Dead people.
c) Just a testing ground for the new and improved weapons (MOAB) we were developing.
d) Defending your right to live in freedom?
e) Boost the economy?
f) We were like the Japanese?
g) We were just being mean?
h) Why can’t we all just get along?

Integrity is:

a) Acting the same way all the time, even when no one is looking?
b) I don’t know what integrity is.
c) Why can’t we all just get along?

Freedom is:

a) Being free
b) An abstract idea
c) A state in which somebody is able to act and live as he or she chooses, without being subject to any, or to any undue, restraints and restrictions
d) Doing what you want and piss on everyone else
e) Every one doing what they want and piss on everyone else (no, wait, that’s anarchy)
f) The pursuit of happiness
g) The ability to exercise free will and make choices independently of any external determining force
h) Submitting yourself to everyone
i) Everyone just doing their own thing
j) Not having to obey laws and rules imposed on us by someone else
k) I don’t know what freedom is
l) Why can’t we all just get along?

Once there is a little tighter understanding of these concepts, it’s a little easier to start debating the issues. My opinion is that we never should have tried being both ways (tough and the good guys). You can’t be a good guy and start a war like this one. It's not a war against terrorism; it breeds terrorism, not a war waged in the name of love. How in the world do you wage ‘restrained war’? If you’re just trying to get the bad guys, you never will. Who defines ‘the bad guys’? I watched the beheading film in its entirety and walked away sick. The question of rape and nude pyramids etc. came up here but there’s no way to compare any of that to a public beheading. Now, who’s the bad guy? One is just poor supervision and management on our part. Murder is murder. This is just one war where you can take no prisoners (that is their philosophy not ours). What prisoner can we take that is going to be ok with things if they ever get released? They just don’t think the way we do. That parameter alone makes this whole deal a no-win situation. There is no win-win situation. In this type of war, with these people, the only option is win-lose (which do you prefer?). You have to think and fight like your enemy and completely annihilate them (once again, their philosophy). How long until their next attack if we walk away? They said they would. The idea that they will in anyway be happy we came in and killed friends and family and they will be all right with that because we meant well is completely asinine. War is not compromise or co-operation. At some time in the future, our only option will be: give up or wage war. Seems easy enough. Give up means total unconditional withdrawal, (then they attack us again) War means total annihilation (no more attacks). This will happen only after they make the next move. Black or White. No ‘Why can’t we all just get along’.

Bill

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board_nerd · Joined: 28 May 2002 Posts: 1015 Location: SE US

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First, let’s see a show of hands for those who like living in the United States. Ok, for those of you with your hands down, why don’t you go somewhere that’s better?

Love it or leave it. C'mon, Bill. I thought you were above cheap demagoguery

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It’s a thing where you go in and kill Wohami Sr. but not his wife and little Wohami Jr. (and brothers)

But then again, maybe not, as you don't seem to mind thinly veiled ethnic slurs. I've found solid car advice on this board, but the pseudo-fascist bull$hit of some of these threads amazes me. For what it's worth, this site is no longer a bookmark...

Billo · Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 12:39 pm Post subject: WHO DO WE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT??

board_nerd,

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I'm a middle-aged white guy with a gun. BUSH ALL THE WAY!!

thinly veiled ethnic slurs?

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forgot to mention I'm also a collector. Nuclear bombs. Fission, fusion -- God I love these things. Can't have too many. Now, don't go ballistic and tell the Government, or they'll call me a terrorist and drop me in a ship off S.C. to rot without a trial or a lawyer. But I digress. My daddy loved A-bombs, and by God so will my children. I keep 'em locked and safe -- no kid of mine will take one to school. And if they did, well, I'd beat the crap of them! But again, I digress. I tell ya, the disintegration of the Soviet Union did wonders for the hobby. I've got one the size of a suitcase I scored off the street in Istanbul. The timer even ticks out loud. Can you believe it? LOL. Now, don't brand me crazy. Not one person has died from a nuclear bomb in decades. Anyway, nuclear bombs don't kill people, people kill people. I'm sick of everyone trying to take these away from me. 0.01% of nuclear bomb owners give the rest of us law abiding, God fearing owners a lousy name. Where does it stop? Next thing is to ban my car!

cheap demagoguery?

I'm sorry I offended you.

Bill

board_nerd · Joined: 28 May 2002 Posts: 1015 Location: SE US

You're really reaching to classify 'middle-aged white guy' a slur, though in the paranoid world of Rush, Hannity and Drudge I suppose it's probably just that. Try using 'Wohami' in your next discussion about Arabs at work. What's a guy in Israel? 'Yiddy Sr.?' What's your term for Africans? How about African Americans? Skip it -- I don't want to know.

Edit: Reread my post that LITERALLY SPELLED OUT the satire behind the quotes you try to spin above. Don't sweat offending me; I don't give the time of day to your thinking or mindset...

[ 05-12-2004: Message edited by: board_nerd ]

xxg00chxx · Joined: 29 Apr 2004 Posts: 333 Location: Gilbert, AZ

quote:
Originally posted by markf:
[QB]Mark..
As for guns.. its the John Allen Muhammads and petty thieves and domestic abusers and other scum of the US, which does the killing. They represent .01% of gun owners.

To enact blanket punishment on the rest of us, for the criminality of .01%, is not tolerable in my opinion. Think about that fraction. Its one tenth of one percent..!

Anti-gun lobbyists (and Im not saying you are one).. would revoke the rights of 1000 citizens for the criminal act of one..? Unthinkable.. Unconscionable..!

Absolutely... not to mention, the people committing crimes with guns are, by very definition, CRIMINALS. Take guns away from law-abiding citizens, and what does that leave? GUN-TOTING CRIMINALS! Think about it guys, people that don't respect the law sure as hell are not going to stop carrying firearms just because they are not legal.

AND I AM A DEMOCRAT!! Imagine that. A gun-toting leftie!! How's that for SCARY! LOL

Greenhornet84 · Joined: 11 Nov 2003 Posts: 406 Location: Uper Darby PA

Patrick quote

"Eric, the Constitution covers US citizens in the US, NOT foreign nationals OR US citizens that are considered enemy combatants in a war. This is defined in the Geneva Conventions, and they are not to be confused with prisoners of war (there IS a difference!) The enemy combatants are locked up, in military custody until whenever, where they belong!"

Sorry Pal butI have downloaded all thr Geneva Conventions since 1906 and you'll have to show me where the difference between enemy combatantants and prisinors of war are delininated. I'm a vet and have read a lot ofmilitary history, and I never heard of citizens defending thier country refered to as illegal enemy combatants until Paul Wofowitz became Assistant SecDef. You said it, now prove it. Are you quoting the Geneva Conventions or Fox news?

Billo,
Good thread. I halp agree and half disagree. If we are to wage war, wage total war, Win. Problem is the Iraqi people didn't attack us. The poor Iraqi people didn't attack anyone. We should be walking on eggs. Sadaam is in custody. He was our enemy, not the Iraqi people.

GB started this mess and has to find a way to solve it. Early elections and a pullback of US troops is the only way to capture the hearts and minds, and if the Iraqis decide on a n Islamist government, Wouldn't that be the will of the people?
Mark
Mark

markf · Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 8:39 pm Post subject: WHO DO WE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT??

It didnt occur to me that Bill was being racist. His remarks concern the enemy, who are predominately Arab. Had he said, 'Kill Smith Sr', or 'Mac Daniels Sr'.. I would have wondered what he was talking about.

On another note.. I have no problem with refering to barbaric murderers in the derogatory.

I also dont have a problem with Board_nerd editing his favorites.

Billo.. I concur whole heartedly.

[ 05-13-2004: Message edited by: markf ]

McK · Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 1126 Location: Chicago

quote:
Originally posted by Greenhornet84:
GB started this mess and has to find a way to solve it. Early elections and a pullback of US troops is the only way to capture the hearts and minds, and if the Iraqis decide on a n Islamist government, Wouldn't that be the will of the people?

Mark

Like you said, I agree and I disagree. I was not for the war in Iraq, but now that we're there I do not want us to pull out to satisfy Bush's political needs. I am deeply saddened by what is taking place there, but rushing out now to maintain some arbitrary deadline is not the answer. We need to complete the job at hand. How can we say that they have the systems in place that are necessary to run a truly free election at this point? Leave now and we haven't accomplished any good at all.

A terrible simile, but I would equate it to me going over to my friends house to tell him, "Hey buddy, your ball joints are shot, why I bet you could lose stability the very next corner you take and wreck, so we're going to change your control arms. I'm doing you and everyone else on the road around you a favor. Move aside." I call my girlfriend at home and say, "no worries, his car really needs this, we'll be done in 3 hours... you don't want me doing this? Well I have to now, I'm already over here and have the parts in hand." I put his car up on jacks and start disassmbling the thing. Get the old arms 90% off and call my gf to say "hey, it's as good as over, things couldn't be going better." The job hits some snags, that new bushing doesn't want to press on, whatever. 3 hours is approaching darn fast, friend's getting pissed at me for taking his car apart and my gf starts calling me to find out where the hell I am and why aren't I done yet.

What do I do? Do I say sorry pal, but I gotta make sure my gf is happy and bolt, and leave him with a mess of parts to sort out? Or do I acknowledge the fact that I got myself and my friend into this in the first place, so it's time to be responsible and complete what I promised to do. And if it means sleeping on the couch that night because I pissed of the girl at home, well, so be it.

And what if I do leave now? I lost credibility with my friend, and I lost any trust and credibility with his friends. And if there was someone out there who didn't like me before, well, now they have even more reason to find me derisive.

We have an obligation now, like it or not. And our election is no reason to send that country into further turmoil.

board_nerd · Joined: 28 May 2002 Posts: 1015 Location: SE US

You forgot the part about dragging your friend out of the house, beating him unconscious and sticking a broomstick up his a$$hole while your girlfriend takes digital photos

TnSlim · Joined: 08 Sep 2003 Posts: 355 Location: Curaçao, N.A.

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...I was not for the war in Iraq, but now that we're there I do not want us to pull out to satisfy Bush's political needs....

I think you misunderestimate Dubya. He is steering where his moral compass directs, politics be d*mned. That said, I can see where he might take advantage of some political expediency if he considers another four years at the helm to be indispensable to completing the task (but not if it will hinder the current efforts or place US servicemen at greater risk).

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…We need to complete the job at hand….

Agreed. But how much more difficult is the task now that the leftists have made this a two-front war?

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…A terrible simile, but I would equate it to me going over to my friends house to tell him, "Hey buddy, your ball joints are shot, why I bet you could lose stability the very next corner you take and wreck, so we're going to change your control arms….

A more apt analogy would be discovering that your neighbor routinely beats his wife and abuses his children but he’s paid off the police so they keep turning a blind eye. So you shop the problem around, trying to find some law enforcement agency that has jurisdiction and the juevos to take on the task.

If none can be found, which is the greater evil, to apply your own brand of vigilantism, or to close your windows at night so you no longer hear the screams?

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…We have an obligation now, like it or not. And our election is no reason to send that country into further turmoil….

Would that the rest of the country could see the logic in that.