Unofficialbmw.com

[SaturdayNightBimmer]

Hey guys, this has been on my mind lately. Hope we can discuss it without killing each other!

I WAS a pretty staunch Republican, but my views have changed in recent years.

In my mind, Bush did some good things, and I was proud of him after 9/11, but lately I can't say I agree with the things I'm hearing and reading.

The thought of John Kerry taking over in the middle of an intense Iraq situation, scares me. Not sure if he would be the guy to handle the heavy business. His talks about "getting back in the good graces of the UN" is a deal killer for me.

Has it really come down to the lesser of two evils?

It's almost like the final 2 on SURVIVOR. You hate 'em both, but you vote for the one who played the game the best.

Who do we vote for? What's the consensus?

[dale]

1) Kerry would take office in January, we are _supposed_ to be "out of Iraq" by June 30th...
hmm, is 5 months long enough to forget Bush's screwups regarding Iraq? Not that June 30th had anything to do with this being an election year...

2) The best advice on choosing the lesser of two evils in a vote, go to the polling both, find a bozo, find out who he's voting for, vote the opposite way.

Normally I hate political discussion, to much like a religious debate. You believe what you believe, and it doesn't matter how logical the argument, the other guy isn't going to change his mind, or your mind.

Back to worrying about my next race.

[ 04-30-2004: Message edited by: dale ]

[SaturdayNightBimmer]

So Dale....is it Kerry or Bush?

Ya think we'll "REALLY" be out of Iraq at the end of June?

Btw, I know, I know, Grandpa always said, "Sonny, ya never discuss politics or religion among friends, it's a good way to get into a ruckus."

I just want to hear what other E30 guys are thinking here.

[McK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by SaturdayNightBimmer:
I just want to hear what other E30 guys are thinking here.

---

My vote doesn't count too??

As mentioned in the other thread, and a feeling I had 4 years ago, Powell could clean up in an election. But he's still got that military attitude, I don't think he'd EVER run against his chief. Same reason he didn't take a public hard stance against the war after Bush made his decision.

[markf]

Bush. ...regretfully.

[Roadstergal]

It's not a choice of the lesser of two evils. It's the choice between an evil and a suboptimal good. I can look at no aspect of Bush's presidency which has not done significant damage - foreign policy, national security, the environment, domestic issues, the economy, etc. I was eager to see Bush Sr. out of office, but I didn't thik he was a worse president than Reagan - and Bush Jr. is. I've seen the only vaguely moderate elements of his administration - Powell, Whitman - sidelined, cut out of the loop, or run out, and that's not a good thing. Kerry isn't my first choice, but I think he will be a far, far better president than Bush was.

And that's not coming from someone who hates all Republicans on principle. If I thought it were politically feasible, I'd love to see Kerry/McCain. The people who actually served in wars seem to have a much more reasoned stance on starting them than those who didn't.

[board_nerd]

I'm a middle-aged white guy with a gun. BUSH ALL THE WAY!!!

[dale]

No I don't think we'll _really_ be out of Iraq by the end of June.

I totally agree that folks who fight in wars, or who are stationed in harms way (myself on the east german border in '84) are much less likely to start wars.

Did anyone notice what the most profitable companies in the country have been the last few years running? Oil and energy companies.
Huh, I thought, you know, they'd compete with prices going up and all... you know, maybe one of them would gain marketshare, at the cost of some profit. Nope, they seem to be one big happy family at the moment charging $2.25/gal out here for premium.

quote:

---

circa 9/03 http://www.washtimes.com/business/20030825-112356-5573r.htm

Oil companies reported the highest earnings in the second quarter of this year since their record profits two years ago.
Exxon Mobil Corp., the world's largest publicly traded oil company, posted second-quarter profits that rose 58 percent to $4.17 billion (62 cents per share) from $2.64 billion (39 cents) a year earlier. Revenue rose 12 percent to $57.16 billion from $50.8 billion.
Profit from the production unit rose 27 percent to $2.84 billion, and rising fuel sales led to a 50 percent jump in refining profit.
Chevron Texaco, the second-biggest oil company, reported even better results.
Second-quarter profit quadrupled to $1.6 billion ($1.50) from $407 million (39 cents) a year earlier. Revenue rose to $29.36 billion from $25.33 billion.

---

[Greenhornet84]

I'm a middle aged white guy without a gun. I gave my rifles to my brother the day my first son was born.
I'm a lifelong democrat who served as a committeman for 18 years.
Kerry McCann would be a winner. A Bipartisan ticket. It would be a landslide. Will they do it? McCann is old enough to spend his last 8 years in public service as VP.
Will it happen?

[dale]

I'd vote for Kerry/McCann.

I'll vote for Kerry over Bush in a heartbeat. Kerry may not be effective, or he might be, that remains to be seen...assuming he gets elected.

Yah, another middle age white guy here also. No guns in my household. My father has a few, mainly as collectables. My grandfather was a gunsmith and had hundreds of them.

[ 05-02-2004: Message edited by: dale ]

[patrick66]

If your state has a space for a write-in candidate, let me make a suggestion for a vote that'll count:

Me.

I meet all of the qualifications set by the Constitution, am a conservative, pro-military, pro-Constitution, pro-life, and think that the internal combustion engine is one of the greatest inventions ever.

Pepole should decide what to do for their retirement with THEIR hard-earned money, not having to give it to a morally and fiscally bankrupt federal Social Security system.

My property is MINE! Leave me alone!

The government should have NO say in where and to whom my estate goes, regardless of its' size.

I, as a parent, have the right and the obligation to determine the right way to educate my kids. Get rid of the Department of Education and get the Feds out of our schools.

The UN is a socialist band of whiners and one-worlders intent on stripping all nations of their soverignty and making the industrialized world pay for everyone else's way. Get rid of the UN and ship the whole kit-n-kaboodle to Paris. Riyadh. Baghdad. Anywhere but here!

How's that for a platform start, boys and girls??? I welcome intelligent support and rebuttals. Flamers, keep your hands off the keyboard and step away now!


[ 05-02-2004: Message edited by: patrick66 ]

[markf]

RoadsterGal...
Quit your blaspheming.. Reagan is GAWD!!

ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, & FIRARMS.... so who brought the chips?

Im a middle aged guy as well.. and I have lots of guns. AND most of them are of the big, scary, assualt type.
(Im a federally licensed collector)
Why.. the very SIGHT of my marque pieces could be fatal to the more squeemish anti-gun leftist.

But even as a collector, the gun issue is NOT at the forefront of my decision on a candidate.. there are bigger things on the table, right now. Besides.. nobody will mandate any legislation which would confiscate what I already have. It would be political suicide.
There are over 60 million gun owners in the united states.

On that note.. Assuming that ALL gun related homicides were comitted by legal owners, then
Last year, more than 59,990,000 gun owners did NOT shoot somebody. Thats just a little over .01 percent
statistics

Something to consider.. You can keep your abortion rights, if I can keep my gun rights.

What Kills

Sorry .. didnt mean to turn the topic.

[markf]

Addendum: Patrick66 is GAWD..!

President 'Patrick 66'. ...kinda has a ring to it. Like ... 'VAT 69'

OK.. Im gonna write in 'Patrick66'

[ 05-02-2004: Message edited by: markf ]

[Roadstergal]

Patrick could quite effectively split the conservative vote, methinks. Go for it.

Mark, the abortion debate is a seperate one, and should probably be split off. But I am pro-choice and anti-abortion, and I have found that most who support abortion rights are in the same boat. Making abortion illegal doesn't stop abortions. If a woman is pregnant and doesn't want to carry to term, she can always do something about it - something that will be more or less safe for her. Make abortion legal, and put all of that time, energy, and effort into sex ed and women's health programs, and you'll be far more effective at decreasing abortions. No woman wants to have an abortion, or enjoys having it.

Some abortions are necessary. If the fetus is too badly damaged to carry to term, the woman's body itself will reject it - an event termed a spontaneous abortion. This happened to my mom, who carried four children to term and wanted more - but the one between the two eldest just wasn't created correctly. The body doesn't always read the signals, though, and will try to force a woman to carry an inviable fetus to term, to the danger of the woman. Most anti-choice folk don't make an exception even for that extreme, which is ridiculous.

If we could keep guns out of the hands of the hands of the John Allen Muhammads and petty thieves and domestic abusers and other scum of the US, I wouldn't care as much about people indulging in that odd hobby - but so far, we can't.

[Billo]

Mark,

I was thinkin' of a post where we could show off our shootin' irons! I'm like you, I just like collecting. I have some I've never even fired. If they could effectively achieve gun control, how long until we have to go to ball peen hammer control?

Bill