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Roadstergal · Posted: Mon May 03, 2004 4:09 pm Post subject: WHO DO WE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT??

Echo McK, and also - I've heard quite a bit said about "Oh, the guys who commit crimes are the minority, they have stolen guns..."

-If it is that easy to steal guns, the legitimate owners are not being responsible with them, and gun access is being given to those who can't use them responsibly.

-If it isn't, gun access is being given to those who are using them for crimes.

Either way you try to argue it, gun access is too lax, currently.

And for that comment about guns preventing rapes - if a guy comes up and sticks a knife in your back, you don't have time to fish out a gun. I am all in favor of self defense classes and mace, which are of actual use in such a situation. Also, pepper/Mace are reversible, in the event of an accident/mistake. Heck, the IL governor stopped executions because it was shown that the courts were not capable of a reasonable success rate in proper convictions (i.e. were killing innocent folk). Do you really think vigilante yahoos with guns will be more accurate? That's to the calling 911 comment.

This is worth a listen. http://207.70.82.73/pages/descriptions/97/81.html

If you're unfamiliar with This American Life, it's a fantastic show. It never looks for easy answers, and if it's debating an issue, always finds people on many sides of it.

markf · Posted: Mon May 03, 2004 5:31 pm Post subject: WHO DO WE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT??

why is everybody with a gun, a yahoo?
I assure you, I dont know any yahoos with a gun. I know they're out there.. but I havent met one yet. All the gun owners I know are very responsible, educated, money making, civic minded, people... Some of the staunchest environmentalists are shooters/hunters.
Slack jawed yokels, brandishing weapons is just more leftist stereo-typing horsesh*t..
and Im sick to death of it.

Roadstergal · Posted: Mon May 03, 2004 6:08 pm Post subject: WHO DO WE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT??

quote:
Originally posted by markf:
why is everybody with a gun, a yahoo?

No, vigilantes are yahoos.

SaturdayNightBimmer · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 443

How about a clear definition of what you believe is a "vigilante?" Love to hear it.

[ 05-03-2004: Message edited by: SaturdayNightBimmer ]

ExemptX2000 · Joined: 22 Sep 2002 Posts: 458 Location: Alexandria, LA

quote:
Originally posted by Roadstergal:
Echo McK, and also - I've heard quite a bit said about "Oh, the guys who commit crimes are the minority, they have stolen guns..."

-If it is that easy to steal guns, the legitimate owners are not being responsible with them, and gun access is being given to those who can't use them responsibly.

-If it isn't, gun access is being given to those who are using them for crimes.

Either way you try to argue it, gun access is too lax, currently.

Well in many cases u cant help it... If one isnt home when they get robbed, gun gets stolen, cant do too much about that, happened to my father in fact... Someone stole his Glock 17... Someone breaks into a vehicle with a gun in it and it gets stolen, again, cant help that... Someones not going to buy a $400 gun and just leave it laying around to be stolen...

quote:

And for that comment about guns preventing rapes - if a guy comes up and sticks a knife in your back, you don't have time to fish out a gun. I am all in favor of self defense classes and mace, which are of actual use in such a situation. Also, pepper/Mace are reversible, in the event of an accident/mistake.

Self defence is a plus, I was reffering to the fact that the rapist usually take the rapee to the bedroom where the gun would probably be... With a gun close by the person would be alot more confident that if they nail the guy with a lamp and run, they can run and get that gun before he recovers, if they do not have that gun, then they probably wont be confident enough to hit him with something because then what do they do? Atleast with a gun theres a backup plan...

quote:

Heck, the IL governor stopped executions because it was shown that the courts were not capable of a reasonable success rate in proper convictions (i.e. were killing innocent folk). Do you really think vigilante yahoos with guns will be more accurate?

So now your saying that our court system dosnt work?

Yes im sure there are ppl who dont deserve to be on death row, its truly a sad thing, but what can u do? Let murders sit in prison for life and but a larger strain on the prison systems? And put even more of a strain on the wallets of the US citizens? Just for those few who *might* be innocent... Take into account most prisoners swear by their innocence till their date of execution...

[ 05-03-2004: Message edited by: ExemptX2000 ]

markf · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 6:55 am Post subject: WHO DO WE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT??

Hey exempt.. nice little website you got there. I'll post later. I built an intranet, here at work, and have many 'help' pages available, which might be of some interest..

markf · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 7:04 am Post subject: WHO DO WE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT??

RoadsterGal...
Agreed... Vigilante justice is just another name for Mob Rule.
One of the more serious issues which Id use my weapons to defend against.

When I was about 7 years old, I watched the 'Ox Bow Incident' on TV.. I was quite disturbed by that story, and never forgot it.

Odd.. as a 7 y/o, the colonel regained my respect in the end, for having the decency to shoot himself.

McK · Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 1126 Location: Chicago

quote:
Originally posted by ExemptX2000:
So now your saying that our court system dosnt work?

[ 05-03-2004: Message edited by: ExemptX2000 ]

It sure as hell didn't work in IL, it was a corrupt system from the beat cops up thru the courts. The Governor was no angel either, and doesn't deserve the accolades he's currently receiving. I moved to Chicago in time to catch the tail end of the story, basically cops were arresting innocent people just to close a case, little to no evidence, lying on witness stands, failing to provide all evidence, etc etc etc. A real mess and the newer technology available has proven innocence of some incarcerated people.

Roadstergal · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 10:42 am Post subject: WHO DO WE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT??

quote:
Originally posted by SaturdayNightBimmer:
How about a clear definition of what you believe is a "vigilante?" Love to hear it.

Main Entry: vig·i·lan·te
Pronunciation: "vi-j&-'lan-tE
Function: noun
Etymology: Spanish, watchman, guard, from vigilante vigilant, from Latin vigilant-, vigilans
: a member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily
broadly : a self-appointed doer of justice

Roadstergal · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 10:48 am Post subject: WHO DO WE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT??

quote:
Originally posted by ExemptX2000:
Well in many cases u cant help it... If one isnt home when they get robbed, gun gets stolen, cant do too much about that, happened to my father in fact...

That's exactly my point. We can't make guns broadly available to the public and keep them out of the hands of criminals.

quote:
Originally posted by ExemptX2000:
Self defence is a plus, I was reffering to the fact that the rapist usually take the rapee to the bedroom

Er, no... a rapist typically consummates the deal right then and there. It's only in movies that he drags it out and gives her a chance to dive for the bedside table. If you take self-defense classes, you'll know what to do with your shoe and a key.

quote:
Originally posted by ExemptX2000:
So now your saying that our court system dosnt work? Yes im sure there are ppl who dont deserve to be on death row, its truly a sad thing, but what can u do? Let murders sit in prison for life and but a larger strain on the prison systems? And put even more of a strain on the wallets of the US citizens? Just for those few who *might* be innocent... Take into account most prisoners swear by their innocence till their date of execution...

In the IL example, DNA testing exonerated more people than had been put to death since the penalty was reinstated in the late '70s. That's a lot of innocent people to kill just because you want to make sure you get everyone. And yes, that's indicative of some problems in the court system.

SaturdayNightBimmer · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 443

quote:
Originally posted by Roadstergal:

Main Entry: vig·i·lan·te
Pronunciation: "vi-j&-'lan-tE
Function: noun
Etymology: Spanish, watchman, guard, from vigilante vigilant, from Latin vigilant-, vigilans
: a member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily
broadly : a self-appointed doer of justice

C'mon Roadster, that was weak. My question to you was what you believe is a vigilante, YOUR definition. What no fallopian fortitude to elaborate? Why the anger and bitterness?

You don't wear horn rimmed glasses, and hang out in Portland a lot do you? Just wondering....

markf · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 12:40 pm Post subject: WHO DO WE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT??

Is your car lowered in the front only..?

SaturdayNightBimmer · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 443

quote:
Originally posted by markf:
Is your car lowered in the front only..?

I have the Bav Auto springs 1 1/4" drop all the way around. The pic angle is creating an illusion of a severe rake in the front.

EDIT : My cheap azz digital cam tends to have somewhat of a "fisheye" quality to it as well. You have to stand back about a mile and zoom in otherwise the pics are fuzzy. I really need to spend some dough on a Nikon. I'd like to be able to get in tight with some detail.

[ 05-04-2004: Message edited by: SaturdayNightBimmer ]

dale · Joined: 22 Aug 1999 Posts: 3087 Location: Seattle, WA USA

cabrini green

quote:
http://www.voicesofcabrini.com/
In 1995, demolition began at Cabrini Green, one of Chicago's most "notorious" housing developments. Infamous for poverty, gangs, drugs, and violence - Cabrini Green is also home to a strong community of African-American residents - many of whom are fighting to stay. Filmed from 1995-1999, Voices of Cabrini is the story of how redevelopment is changing this neighborhood.

pup · Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 7:02 am Post subject: WHO DO WE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT??

how did everyone forget about nader? this is his year.