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board_nerd · Joined: 28 May 2002 Posts: 1015 Location: SE US

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If they could effectively achieve gun control, how long until we have to go to ball peen hammer control?

Slippery slope, Bill. Gun control, helmet laws, seatbelts, taxes -- everybody's sick of being told 'what to do' by Big Bro. Leave me alone, respect my rights. An offer: take call with a trauma surgeon on Sat. night. They clean up after the helmetless, seatbeltless, gun toting yahoos. Another offer: look at who's got health insurance, and who doesn't. The overwhelming majority of trauma patients do not. You, I, everybody else pays for it, accordingly. No free lunches out there. Everybody wants to be left alone, and nobody wants to pony up for their actions. Something's got to give somewhere. Or not. But at least be honest about the cost and who's getting the free ride(s)...

Greenhornet84 · Joined: 11 Nov 2003 Posts: 406 Location: Uper Darby PA

Markf,
You again. I have the feeling that you and are always going to be opposites.
I'm not squeemish about guns. Just about guns and kids. I found my Mothers 5 shot 22 caliber derringer on top of the China closet when I was 8 years old.
In 1969, 4 weeks into Basic Training I was assigned as a trainee assistant instructor on the rifle range because they had nothing to teach me. I could shoot a rifle.

Back to the thread. Dale's right. KERRY IN A SECOND. We don't know if he'll be an effective leader. Well, we do know that Bush is effective. And a disaster. If he had stayed in Afganistan and finished the job there, he would be considered a world leader and electionwise, unassailable. But, pushed by the neocons from his fathers administration, he went after Sadaam to avenge his fathers failed re-election. There were a number of reasons his father failed to be re-elected, least among them was Iraq. That war was over and the people accepted that as good thing, Kuwait was liberated from a forign occupier. Bush's religious ferver to democratize the Middle East may register well with the evangelical right {and Biblical proficies) but may ring hollow with the middle, which he needs for re=election.
Mark

SaturdayNightBimmer · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 443

Dangit, I agree with Markf, yet I also agree with a few things that GreenHornet Mark has to say. THIS IS CONFUSING!

I'm still voting for Bush, but I hope something definitely changes. Voting for Kerry in my mind, at this point, would be the bigger disaster.

markf · Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 7:29 pm Post subject: WHO DO WE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT??

Mark..
Gun accidents involving children are as tragic as car accidents involving the same.
Hell.. any accident involving children is unbearable.
In any case, its always adult neglect.

We lay 10 times as many lives anually, on the alter of the automobile, but nobody talks about banning cars in leiu of some huge mass transit system in an effort to save lives.

As for my children, they were taught the discipline of firarms at a very young age. They assume that EVERY gun is loaded.. always.
Education is the key, But no replacement for safety precautions.
My weapons are triple locked.
Locked cases, in locked gun safe, in locked facility. One key is in my pocket, and the duplicate is kept off premises.

RoadsterGal..
I doubt that the wisdom of Solomon could prevail in the abortion rights issue.
DAMN TOUGH SUBJECT.. But at this time I must agree with you entirely. The decision should lay with the woman .. and her conscience.
To resolve the issue legally, we would have to have a clear definition of life, and proof of the existance of a soul, and at what point is a soul imparted to a living being.
Many of these questions are answered in numerous religions.. but religion is not recognized along such lines, by law.
Then again.. they are prosecuting Scott Peterson for the murder of his unborn child...
the whole thing gives me a headache.

As for guns.. its the John Allen Muhammads and petty thieves and domestic abusers and other scum of the US, which does the killing. They represent .01% of gun owners.

To enact blanket punishment on the rest of us, for the criminality of .01%, is not tolerable in my opinion. Think about that fraction. Its one tenth of one percent..!

Anti-gun lobbyists (and Im not saying you are one).. would revoke the rights of 1000 citizens for the criminal act of one..? Unthinkable.. Unconscionable..!

Billo..
Absolutely..! lets have an ATF thread.. heheh! Hey.. If they could effectively achieve gun control, we would have to have a thread for showing off our pounding Irons.

[ 05-02-2004: Message edited by: markf ]

Greenhornet84 · Joined: 11 Nov 2003 Posts: 406 Location: Uper Darby PA

Markf,
Curious, no response to the 8year old finding a derringer.. My rifles are locked in a Gun Club with a shooting range. I live in a densely populated urban area. 911 is 3 minites away. Unlimited handgun availibility in urban areas has beenn a disaster in this country. Reducing statictics to the .01 range, i.e. total gun ownership to the number of deaths in no way reducedes the number of deates. You could just as easily compare the number of gunsto the stars in the sky.
For a reasonable statistic compare the number of gun deaths to any other country in the world. And then come back and talk to me about Guns.
Mark
les

board_nerd · Joined: 28 May 2002 Posts: 1015 Location: SE US

I forgot to mention I'm also a collector. Nuclear bombs. Fission, fusion -- God I love these things. Can't have too many. Now, don't go ballistic and tell the Government, or they'll call me a terrorist and drop me in a ship off S.C. to rot without a trial or a lawyer. But I digress. My daddy loved A-bombs, and by God so will my children. I keep 'em locked and safe -- no kid of mine will take one to school. And if they did, well, I'd beat the crap of them! But again, I digress. I tell ya, the disintegration of the Soviet Union did wonders for the hobby. I've got one the size of a suitcase I scored off the street in Istanbul. The timer even ticks out loud. Can you believe it? LOL. Now, don't brand me crazy. Not one person has died from a nuclear bomb in decades. Anyway, nuclear bombs don't kill people, people kill people. I'm sick of everyone trying to take these away from me. 0.01% of nuclear bomb owners give the rest of us law abiding, God fearing owners a lousy name. Where does it stop? Next thing is to ban my car!

ExemptX2000 · Joined: 22 Sep 2002 Posts: 458 Location: Alexandria, LA

How can u compare an a bomb to a gun? A gun has positive uses... Hunting (oh yea forgot some lefties would rather this to NOT happen, by god someone should eat Bambi

) and protection... A bomb only kills people, and ALOT of ppl... This country was built on guns, our forefathers added the 'Right to bear arms' in the constitution for a reason... Take the guns from those who use them legally, and the those who dont will still get them... Difference is they will KNOW that you probably dont! Atleast now they know u might have one...

I just love that 'middle-aged white guy with a gun' comment... That wasnt stereo-typing anyone at all!

I suppose all conservatives wear a white cloak over their heads and goto rallies and yell 'white power' too?
Cuz if thats what you think, im gonna have to argue with u on that one...

As for the topic... This is my first chance to vote being 21, and sadly dont think I will... No good choices for me... I wasnt registered when I was 18 so I didnt get to vote then...

[ 05-03-2004: Message edited by: ExemptX2000 ]

board_nerd · Joined: 28 May 2002 Posts: 1015 Location: SE US

Gimme an "S"
Gimme an "A"...

...and eventually you'll get 'satire' (literally and figurativey). This entire thread is absurd. Most threads in "The Lounge" are, including the one(s) I've started. Voting, however, is not. Vote. Period.

markf · Posted: Mon May 03, 2004 6:52 am Post subject: WHO DO WE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT??

Board_nerd...

Those Istanbul suitcase jobs are just cheap knock-offs. You got took, dude.
The stainless steel tube in the center
is actually a dildo. Now that you know.. try not to chip your teeth with it.

Roadstergal · Posted: Mon May 03, 2004 11:47 am Post subject: WHO DO WE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT??

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Originally posted by board_nerd:
Gimme an "S"
Gimme an "A"...

...and eventually you'll get 'satire' (literally and figurativey). This entire thread is absurd. Most threads in "The Lounge" are, including the one(s) I've started. Voting, however, is not. Vote. Period.

Ay-men.

Yes, all you have to do is look at the rise and fall of Cabrini Green (I lived nearby for a while) to see what gun ownership does to a community. In addition to the deaths, there are the injuries that main but don't get in the 'kill' stats, and the atmosphere of fear they generate. I couldn't leave the house after a Bulls victory, because all of the kids were riding around and shooting guns every which way. Sorry, but the community would be a heck of a lot better off without them.

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A gun has positive uses... Hunting (oh yea forgot some lefties would rather this to NOT happen, by god someone should eat Bambi ) and protection...

...and shooting out the lights in the stairwell that they put those pesky guards around so you can't smash 'em out with a crowbar... it makes drug dealing and rape much easier with 'em out.

Sounds like most of y'all grew up on a more affluent background. Guns cause a hell of a lot of trouble in borderline communities, and land them on the other side of the line.

Sure, they have a place in the military. The military is there so that we don't have to have our own arsenals.

markf · Posted: Mon May 03, 2004 12:12 pm Post subject: WHO DO WE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT??

Cabrini Green?

SaturdayNightBimmer · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 443

I'm all about the 2nd Amendment. I can't imagine not having a police riot shotgun, Glock 36, and my Sig Pro in the closet. I will never be a victim. Who should?

CLICK HERE and read this on gun control crap

Love him or hate him, Goooooooo TED!

ExemptX2000 · Joined: 22 Sep 2002 Posts: 458 Location: Alexandria, LA

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Originally posted by Roadstergal:

...and shooting out the lights in the stairwell that they put those pesky guards around so you can't smash 'em out with a crowbar... it makes drug dealing and rape much easier with 'em out.

Most rapists weapon of choice is a knife or their bare hands... Most rapes happen in suburban areas, where the man (usually a man) enters the home of a single female and rapes them, why would he need a gun? Most rapists do it to prove they have control, by using a gun it cheats that power they have jus a lil bit... The women is already intimidated by a male in her home... Had she have had a gun she possibly wouldnt have been raped in the first place, now tell me whats worse, a dead attempted rapist, or a raped housewife/mother? Well call me conservative, but I would rather a dead attempted rapist than a raped housewife/mother...

As for the drug dealers and guns, yes those 2 go hand in hand, but wouldnt it make more sense to actually STOP the drugs in the first place? And possibly fund the police departments better, or make harsher laws to fend off these criminals? I know a friend of mine whos been arrested numerous times for carrying marijuana, every time hes gotten a slap on the wrist, such as probation and a fine, hes now finally in jail for a year, this time he was selling the drugs... Well maybe if the laws where a little more harsh when he was using them he wouldnt have gotten arrested so many times and be as much of an addict as he is now, much less selling them!

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Sounds like most of y'all grew up on a more affluent background. Guns cause a hell of a lot of trouble in borderline communities, and land them on the other side of the line.

This is true, for me atleast I did grow up in a suburban area, and its also true that these borerline communities can go awry very quickly... But I can promise u, for the most part, its not the legal gun owners who are to blame, its the drug dealers, as u mentioned earlier, who attain non traceable, most of the time stolen guns, and the feinds who NEED those drugs who are committing crimes with those guns... Do u honestly think they would murder someone with a gun that, that they legally own, and know it can be traced back to them? If u take away the guns of those who use them legally, these ppl will still get their hands on some, or knives or something else to do the things they do... This will not fix anything, I think it will only make it worse...

[ 05-03-2004: Message edited by: ExemptX2000 ]

SaturdayNightBimmer · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 443

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by TED NUGENT : We have the legal right and a moral duty to protect our loved ones and ourselves. I don’t depend on anyone else for my family’s protection. That would be foolish, dangerous and cowardly. When I call 911 it will only be tell them to bring a dustpan and a broom. I shoot back, and depending on the circumstances, I’ll shoot first. You’re weird if you’ve got a problem with that. Good should live, evil should die. Make a stand America.

I'm down with that!

McK · Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 1126 Location: Chicago

Roadstergal's point wasn't that a gun is necessarily used during the rape, but to facilitate the rape. In her example to shoot out the lights in a stairwell.

I haven't been in Chicago long, but markf if you do a google search for chicago cabrini green you'll find some information. It's public housing gone terribly wrong.

We're getting off topic here, but stopping drug users hasn't worked out that well. DARE is pretty much completely ineffective. I doubt it's stopped any adolescent from experimenting with drugs. The program and the gov't have lost a ton of credibility over the years, by making false claims about the side effects of certain drugs. Prevention hasn't worked, in its current form.

Our jails are full of minor offenders. The effectiveness of the current strict punishments is heaviliy debated. And yes, the sentencing is VERY strict in some places - one strike laws. A guaranteed jail sentence in those communities hasn't reduced the drug problem at all. Studies have been done that show minor offenders with no other criminal record are released from jail with a hardened outlook on life and continue to commit crimes, in some cases worse than the original.

There are a lot of underlying factors that play into violence and drug usage. I think it's terribly oversimplified, in the media and by politicians. Same goes with the economy, jobs, healthcare. There is no simple fix to these things, and none of the candidates have presented a good solution.