Unofficialbmw.com

[vinleb]

I just recently had my starter replaced by an independent BMW mechanic and a couple of times since I've had instances where the starter just clicked and I could hear the thump of the fuel pump in the rear. It would always start after a couple tries. Tonight, however, I could not get it to start and as I was trying I could see smoke coming from under the hood, Yikes! I popped the hood and the smoke seemed to be coming from the front of the engine (alternator area). I let it sit for a couple of hours and tried it again and it started (after just clicking a couple times). I know this seems odd but if anyone could give me some ideas on what to look at I would appreciate it.

Vin

[beejay]

sounds like a defective starter or poor connection. attempting to start it drew too much current on the heavy pos cable and it over heated, melting the insulation. did the smoke smell "electrical"?

Just because its a new or rebuilt part, don't assume it's OK. There is a lot of crap parts coming out of China and Mexico anymore.
Verify what the mechanic put in.
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Bob
92 325ic gone
14 BRZ ltd
05 Tundra SR5 TRD
01 VFR800fi - 03 DR650S - 83 CB1100F - 82 CB900F - 69 CB750

[cmcon98]

Take the car back to the mechanic who replaced the starter and explain the issue to him before you set your car on fire.
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Cirrusblau '88 325iC 5-speed
Cosmosschwartz '99 M3 'vert 5-speed

[vinleb]

I sent him an e-mail this morning. The mechanic is a stickler for BMW parts but it is a re manufactured part and therefor susceptible to failure.
Yes the smell was electric but it was not near the starter itself so that perplexed me but now that it was mentioned that the positive cable (from the alternator) could be the problem. I could at least check the connections while I'm waiting on the mechanic.

Thanks guys.

cmcon98:
I was just reading your post on replacing your muffler. I am planning on doing mine in the next couple of days. I need to get up to Bavauto and pick up the muffler and install kit. I plan on using your (hang the bare straps first) tip. What muffler did you install? I plan on getting the bosal for $179 hoping that will last for a few years at least. There is a guy in Salem who told me he would install a muffler I purchase for $80.00 so I am considering that too but it seems like a pretty straight forward job so we'll see.

[vinleb]

Just heard back from the mechanic. He says I should look at the alternator but I don't know. I am not seeing any other issues with electrical that would indicate my alternator going. I guess I need to get out there and check things out a little more closely.

[vinleb]

I went out there and tried turning it over a few times and after it started three or four times it started just clicking again. Also after trying to start it three or four times (just quick key turns) I noticed the smoking again as well. It looked like it was coming from one of the wires going into the diagnostic connector...Anyway I noticed the big red ground wire that someone attached to the top part of the engine was a bit loose. I tightened it down and I have not been able to get it to fail. I am still not sure how much I can trust it though. This ground wire was a mod/repair PO did to the car. I think the ground that normally attaches to the bottom engine block must have failed and someone replaced it with one going to the top portion of the engine.

[haber]

Keep in mind the positive cable goes from the battery straight to the solenoid on the starter(more or less) but the ground path is through the metal housing of the starter to the engine block then through the large engine grounding strap through the body of the car and then through another short cable to the battery. If you have a poor connection anywhere in this ground chain it can lead to low current or not enough current to turn the starter over. If you have a high resistance connection it will heat up very fast with the amount of current demanded by the starter motor.

So I think you have already identified a problem. Now I'm not sure though if you only have the ground strap from the head to the body and you might be missing the extra large ground strap that runs from the lower portion of the engine block to the body. If you are missing that or it has come loose the high current of the starter will look for any return path it can find and those wires may be way too small for the power needed.

Please check your car for a large grounding strap with good connections that is located down by the motor mount on the drivers side. If it is broken or loose or removed you will eventually fail all the other possible ground returns on the poor car.
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-------- -x--x-- SI ByePass

[vinleb]

Thanks haber. My car actually has a ground wire running to the top of the engine and another going to the block down below. These are obviously not stock and I assume were added by a PO. Here are a couple of pictures (If I posted them correctly).

http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s64/leblancvin/?action=view&current=ground_wire001-1.jpg

http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s64/leblancvin/?action=view&current=ground_wire002.jpg

[haber]

Yes sir, that's a little scary looking.

On the other hand there is no real reason for an added cable like that not to work since the cable looks heavy enough despite the obviously wrong color coding. However, if the big red wire from the intake manifold to the shock tower was added as the main ground I don't like the looks of the connection to the manifold plus the current must travel through the block then the head and then the intake and then through a 10mm bolt to get to that big red wire. Is this the wire that heats up and burns off the smoke? Then where does the black wire it ties to on the shock tower go and how is it tied to the shock tower?? As for the other red wire we can't see where it goes back behind the head, maybe to a transmission case bolt. That would be OK but if the screw into the body is only a sheet metal connection that would be questionable also.

It looks like someone may have added a big ground strap that didn't solve the problem so they added another one? If either of those were well secured at each end it should work OK.

The main ground is usuallly a sort of woven flat cable on the other side by the motor mount going straight from the block to the body. 13mm bolts on each end I think and very tightly secured at each end to solid steel portion of the block or body, not aluminum or sheet metal. Then there is usually a small brown ground strap from one of the last valve cover bolts to the firewall area with a 10mm bolt on each end. Well I mean 13mm and 10mm bolt heads.

So, when you secured those bolts a bit better your problem went away, right? I would really consider a proper fix back to the correct parts. They would be easy to do small change from a salvage yard. Plus it wouldn't look so, so, wrong. This makes me think this car has had an engine swap and some of these original fitted items were lost in the transfer.
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-------- -x--x-- SI ByePass

[vinleb]

So the braided ground wire can't be purchased new at Bavauto or somewhere? I am planing to head up there tomorrow to pick up a new muffler anyway. Maybe I'll give Eurodepot a call. Do you know if there is there a good diagram of where the ground strap goes? and more importantly the wire that goes from the valve cover to the firewall? Is this in the Bentley? I definitely want to do it right especially now that I know what kind of problems it can cause.
The 2nd ground wire in picture 2 does connect to the transmission housing.

Thanks for pointing this out for me.

[haber]

OK, my memory is a little off after looking at the car. Sometimes I confuse the e30 and e28. Three ground straps that I see on the 325 each of them with light brown insulation. BMW uses brown rather than black to indicate ground.

One from the back outboard valve cover to a screw on the forward (unused) battery tray right by the O2 sensor connector. A little different than your pic and I can't tell if you have this tapped screw hole. Another ground strap goes from the back of the alternator(near top) to the lowest and rearmost alternator bracket mount on the side of the block. This may only be needed if you have the shock mounted alternator and could probably be omitted if you do NOT have rubber or urethane alternator bushings. Both of these wires look to be about 8-10 gauge wire with the light brown insulation.

The final and probably main grounding strap goes from the oil pan, right next to the oil level unit, to a special lug on the body directly below the AFM. This one looks like 4 gauge wire to me and is pretty heavy with 13mm bolt heads at each end.

I'm sorry if I confused it a little. My 5 has the plain braided, non-insulated ground straps, one at the firewall and one across a motor mount. It also does not appear to have one at the alternator since it has solid mounts.

Hope you get it fixed up properly.
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-------- -x--x-- SI ByePass

[luv_my_318]

yea those grounds look odd. i wouldnt doubt that they're sturdy enuff but you should change that coloring. go over the wires with a permanent marker or black spray paint.

also, run another ground wire from the starter bolt (between the engine n starter) to the cars body. this way you will have the starter completely grounded and the engine as well. make sure u TIGHTEN ALL POSITIVE AND GROUND WIRES since hi current vibrates thru loose connections and that means friction wich heats up n gives you all that smoke! u will get a fire or even worse, u'll end up blowing you altenator or starter soleniod. dont be afraid to use plenty washers as well. oh, n make sure those wires are well insulated cuz they can rott in between n you wont ever realize it.
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1985 318i

[luv_my_318]

one last thing, make sure you clean up all dirt n grease around all connections with a engine cleaner solution. that stuff is a fire hazard, my lincoln caught fire 5 months ago because of that heavy build up near the engine.
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1985 318i