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Timing Belt/Water Pump - Need Suggestions & Guidance
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jcrim



Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 41
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 3:21 pm    Post subject: Timing Belt/Water Pump - Need Suggestions & Guidance Reply with quote

Congrats on what seems to be successful job... One question, why did you put a torque wrench on the bolt for the belt cover? Or better, what was the torque spec? If I recall it was maybe around 14Nm, my torque wrench doesnt even go down that low. As far as I know, thats more or less a dust cover; with no pressure or stress on it. Neednt be too much more then finger tight.. Unless you stripped that funny looking guy that holds the tensioner and alt bracket.. That couldnt be good.

I'm getting my engineering degree next year. I'm yet to take a course on auto repair.

- jake
note: danny newnan is the name of the caddy from caddyshack, reads more funny than mine. sammy bread is also a good fake name, which i'll prob change to.
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k1hb



Joined: 20 Nov 2002
Posts: 1239
Location: boston

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 4:52 pm    Post subject: Timing Belt/Water Pump - Need Suggestions & Guidance Reply with quote

>>>Along the way, I found that the fan had been hitting the water pump/thermostat hose

thats diagnostic of another problem.

having not been there yet, i'll leave you to the experts on this board, it has to do with the motor mounts....

looks like u have fun....bellyaching.rib.

on google i found a 32 bicycle wrench that does the job nicely. worth having.

here is :

http://www.parktool.com/tools/HCW_15.shtml

now i feel useful. it wasnt that cheap tho....sh/h was more than the metal...

how people can do that job with the hood on I dont understand. they must be bellyaching after. but then....people do all sort of crazy things with the hood on....

fred

[ 04-25-2004: Message edited by: k1hb ]
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k1hb



Joined: 20 Nov 2002
Posts: 1239
Location: boston

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 5:20 pm    Post subject: Timing Belt/Water Pump - Need Suggestions & Guidance Reply with quote

>>>I'm off to Home Depot for some high strength drill bits to get that broken bolt out...

uh oh, just as I warned...pully bolts?

there are 6 vs 12 faceted sockets, and my experience is the six-ers grip more firmly, especially if u hammer them in firmly, and if u make sure you torque "plum". that is just so much easier with the hood off.
I am no mechanic, just a doc, maybe someone mechanically less challenged than me can explain why.

So if u had to drill that bolt out: no way u cud have done that with the hood on. crazy!

fred
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85-325e



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 4711
Location: Southampton, NY

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:50 pm    Post subject: Timing Belt/Water Pump - Need Suggestions & Guidance Reply with quote

Hi Everyone!

Well, it's done and I'm pleased as punch. The hood came off with the help of a friend, everything else went as planned, almost. Nothing was that difficult, only very unfamiliar. As mentioned before in a previous post, I sheared off the lower timing belt cover bolt, but was able to drill it and extract it out.

I don't think I could have done this project without removing the hood... It made access a LOT easier, especially when I had to tinker with that sheared bolt.

I made up a PowerPoint presentation with pics of the job which you're all welcome to download from my site... Yes, I was anal about cleaning everythig well before reassembly, and that made the job take longer. I wasted 3 hours on that sheared bolt, what with trying with the drill bits I had on hand, and a trip or two to Home Depot for bits etc.

This is NOT a 3 hour job... I put a good 12 hours into it, but some of that was transportation back and forth from HD and Ace Hardware, the sheared bolt fiasco, and all the extra part cleaning I did.

The car sounds great! The old belt was in pretty good shape, and I'm not sure if it needed replacement at this time, and the tensioner seemed pretty tight as well. The water pump looked pretty shabby and overall, my E30 is MUCH better off now.

Thank you to everyone that posted on this thread. I hope all of this will help the next person terrified about doing this job to go ahead and give it a crack!

The PowerPoint presentation is 2.6MB, because of all the pictures... But I'm sure it'll help someone along the way. The articles mentioned in previous posts in this thread were all very helpful and I read them several times before starting... I suggest you do so as well before starting this project.

The link to the presentation is:

BMW '85-325e Timing Belt & Water Pump Replacement

Enjoy, and thanks everyone. I think of all jobs on the car, this is the one that terrified me the most. With all of your help, I got through it with flying colors!

Best wishes to all,

Enis
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85-325e



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 4711
Location: Southampton, NY

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:01 pm    Post subject: Timing Belt/Water Pump - Need Suggestions & Guidance Reply with quote

BTW, Jake...

The torque for those #6 timing belt cover bolts is 7 ft-lb. The first torque wrench I bought didn't torque properly and sheared that bolt. I returned the wrench, and got one that DID work. I got the first one at Home Depot, the second at Ace. The one from Ace was cheaper, with better settings... goes from 5 to 80 Ft-Lbs.

Regards,

Enis

[ 04-26-2004: Message edited by: 85-325e ]
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Billo
Site Admin


Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 2047
Location: Oklahoma City

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:20 pm    Post subject: Timing Belt/Water Pump - Need Suggestions & Guidance Reply with quote

Enis,

Power point...What a job.
If only we could get everyone on board doing that...
I have added that to the archives. I'll give you credit if I ever use it. Really good job.

Bill

---------------------

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85-325e



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 4711
Location: Southampton, NY

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:43 pm    Post subject: Timing Belt/Water Pump - Need Suggestions & Guidance Reply with quote

Thanks Bill...

I wish I had had the help of this board when I had my 2002, but then again, there was no internet then! There was no internet when the 325e was introduced either. I let it go in 1994 for 4 week's rent in a house that had already been sold!

Originally, I wasn't thinking about getting a new car in 1985. But my 2002 was having trouble, and I took it to BMW to work on. They saw a sucker coming, and offered a new 85-325e as a loaner! On that short 1 day test drive, I went from barely assisted anything and completely manual everything in the 2004 (windows, sunroof, locks, antenna etc) in the 2002, to power everything in the loaner 325e, with a TON of extra oomph... I was immediately in love! Well, 3 months later, I had leased the same model (325e), just from another dealer for a slightly better deal! I'm STILL driving that car, and because of UBB, it's better than ever!

If this board had existed back then, I'd probably STILL be driving the 2002 around!

This is a wonderful board, so very-well maintained, and incredibly informative.

Thanks again, you guys are great!

Enis

[ 04-25-2004: Message edited by: 85-325e ]
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Billo
Site Admin


Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 2047
Location: Oklahoma City

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:27 am    Post subject: Timing Belt/Water Pump - Need Suggestions & Guidance Reply with quote

Enis,

For those not fortunate enough to have power point, I converted it to PDF format for you. Here's the link...

Timing Belt and Water Pump Change Out

Bill
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85-325e



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 4711
Location: Southampton, NY

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:05 am    Post subject: Timing Belt/Water Pump - Need Suggestions & Guidance Reply with quote

Thanks Bill...

I should have thought of that! I have a pretty good, FREE, conversion utility, but the conversion never occurred to me...

Hope it helps someone out along the way!

Regards,

Enis
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Mini4x



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 27
Location: Massachusettes

PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 7:01 am    Post subject: Timing Belt/Water Pump - Need Suggestions & Guidance Reply with quote

I rechecked all the bolts down under.. I used a gasket on the new waterpump. The pulley hits the exciter ring for the crank sensor. I'm kinda at a loss here, If you eyesight the pulleys the water pump pulley looks like it's too far in by about 1/8".

quote:
Originally posted by 85-325e:
Hi Mini4X...

Well, obviously, I'm no expert here, but are you sure your vibration damper is seated properly?

I'd be worried about shimming anything out. These engines are built to very tight specs and I can't imagine that it would be good for a v-belt to be offset even a bit. How is your belt wear?

Did you use a gasket on the waterpump? Hell, I wish I had the perfect answer for you, but I haven't gotten the pulley's on my car on yet! I'm off to Home Depot for some high strength drill bits to get that broken bolt out...

And Ron... Thanks!

Enis

[ 04-25-2004: Message edited by: 85-325e ]

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85-325e



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 4711
Location: Southampton, NY

PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 7:32 am    Post subject: Timing Belt/Water Pump - Need Suggestions & Guidance Reply with quote

Hi Mini...

Can you take a picture of the two pulleys, up close and personal so we can take a look? Something tells me that the vibration damper issn't seated properly. There's a small index pin on the crankshaft hub, and if that vibration damper isn't down on that pin correctly, the vibration damper would be about 1/8-1/4" out towards the bumper, which is just about the distance you're having a problem with. As I said before, I'm not expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I did get everything back together and there's no rubbing in my car. Don't forget that the pulley on the waterpump and the pulley on the crank need to be in exactly the same line. Sounds to me like the crank pulley is in its entirety too far forward... I seriously doubt the waterpump pulley is too far back, but rather, the pulley down below is too far forward.

Take a few pics if you can.

Enis

[ 04-27-2004: Message edited by: 85-325e ]
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haber



Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 1663
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:23 pm    Post subject: Timing Belt/Water Pump - Need Suggestions & Guidance Reply with quote

Enis, Great Job.

You said 12 hrs total, but if you subtract 3-4 hrs for bolt extraction and recovery, then another 2-3 hrs for documentary photos and notes, another 4-6 hours for photoshop and powerpoint editing, a hour to find someone to help lift the hood off, and another hour to find someone to help put it back on, etc, etc. See, you could have been done before you started if you left the hood on.


Mini4X

Did you pull the crank hub/vib damper? If not could you have the wrong w/p pulley, previously replaced with one from another BMW(like a 318 or something slightly off)? I don't know but you just never know on a used car what might have been done.

Also are you sighting the correct grooves. First belt on is the crank-P/S, then the crank-W/P-Alt, finally the crank-A/C. The alternator bushing are notorious for getting soft and making things look like they dont line up anymore.

Just trying to offer suggestion/explanation.

Good luck,
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85-325e



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 4711
Location: Southampton, NY

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:42 pm    Post subject: Timing Belt/Water Pump - Need Suggestions & Guidance Reply with quote

Thanks Haber!!!

I love your math!!!

All of the trim, bumpers, lights on the exterior are now off the car (the hood's still off too). I'm getting it painted next week and the hood was in awful shape, with about 300 dings from rocks and pebbles up here (for many years, it was my only car and the gravel during the winter is brutal).

Most of the car is sanded down, especially the roof, to primer since the UV up here completely stripped the clear coat. All the little dings have been ground out, and there's a tiny bit of rust work to do. The car's running great, looks like s--t! But while the car's getting painted, I'll clean every part I have to put back on when it's finished, and in the end, I hope it'll look new. We'll see. Hope I didn't screw anything up

By the way Haber... On MY crank pulley, the closest to the engine is the alternator and waterpump, and second is my a/c, and the third, closest to the front of the car, is the power steering.

Thanks again,

Enis

[ 04-29-2004: Message edited by: 85-325e ]
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haber



Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 1663
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:34 pm    Post subject: Timing Belt/Water Pump - Need Suggestions & Guidance Reply with quote

Enis,

You're right, slap me, I've got the belts listed out of order. My point to Mini was to make sure you're looking at it correctly. That first(closest to block) pully for the W/P & alternator is bigger, right? Maybee an optical illusion if the alt bushings are bad. In any case it should't rub on anything like Mini describes.

Anyway, I don't remember all the post and discussion, but now that the t-belt is done have you also adjusted your valves? That will make it run even better if you haven't.

Congrats again...
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85-325e



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 4711
Location: Southampton, NY

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:39 pm    Post subject: Timing Belt/Water Pump - Need Suggestions & Guidance Reply with quote

You know HAber, I've ALWAYS tried to do that, even on the 2002, and for some reason, in 30 years, I've never gotten them perfect. I did it two years ago, and didn't drive the car much in that time. The car's pretty solid right now. Now that I've seen TDC clearly from doing the belt, maybe I'll give it a whack again. I had to buy two new actuators for the door locks, but I've got the car so stripped down now for the painting, that I figured I'd fix everything that bothered me at once, except the A/C, which is way beyond my means right now. I've pulled off every piece of trim on the car, except for the chrome rain gutters which they'll tape up when they paint. I figure that they'll do a great job with all that stuff gone, and I won't have paint peeling up at all the places they taped. Plus, that trim will look AWESOME when I put it all back cause it'll all be factory showroom clean, or as close as I can get!

I agree with you about Mini's pulley though. They should be even that close. I still think his vibration damper isn't seated all the way down, or the crank hub, if for some reason he took that off, is on fully. Of course, like you said, that water pump pulley could be the wrong one... Still, I don't think he should "shim" anything, but locate the problem and fix it for good. Agreed?

Enis
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