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Cooling system overhaul time again.

 
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PJK



Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 1829
Location: Shingle Springs, CA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:07 am    Post subject: Cooling system overhaul time again. Reply with quote

The OEM radiator went about 100k mikes before leaking. I tried repairing it myself then I tried a radiator shop. They botched the repair so they gave me a cheap radiator for the price of the repair. Maybe 20k miles out of it. I then got a Behr from Pelicon. It now has about 100k miles on it and it is leaking. I finally said enough of this foolishness and ordered this:

http://www.maperformance.com/mishimoto-aluminum-radiator-bmw-e36-1992-1999-mmrad-e36-92.html

The thermostat housing is now also leaking a bit. Several years ago I had replaced it with an aluminum one which I think I got from Pelicon. I was just looking at Pelicon's site and noticed that they have three thermostat housings for the e36. OEM BMW plastic ~$38, aftermarket Plastic ~ $20, and the aluminum one at $11.50. They had about 10 reviews on the aluminum one. Most were good. One was so-so, he had to cleanup the machining wit sanding. On reviewer considered the part to be crap.

Is there a good aluminum thermostat for this car.

My e30 had an aluminum thermostat housing. I remember having to pach pin holes in it with J&B weld. I am trying to decide weather to do the J&B weld thing with the aluminum part I now have, go back to a plastic part, or seek out a decient aluminum part.

Phil
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PJK



Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 1829
Location: Shingle Springs, CA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just did a Google search on MTC thermostat housings. That is the brand of aluminum housing which Pelicon sells.

The search took me to the Bimmerfest forum. The opinion there seems to be that MTC and Ronac are crap and you are better off with the OEM plastic.

The search continues.

Phil
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mmaldin



Joined: 19 Oct 2001
Posts: 288
Location: Boulder, CO

PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil
I purchased a cheap aluminum thermostat housing probably 10 years ago from Pelican. It was fine for a few years then it had chronic very small leaks that drove me crazy. I removed and changed the seal a couple of times and the leak would come back. I couldn't find a better replacement solution other than OE plastic which I didn't want to use. Then I read the Pelican Tech article on changing the T-stat: "If your head has been damaged by corrosion and electrolysis (Figure-8, then you may want to add some black silicone sealant to the thermostat housing when you install it (Figure 9). Figure 10 shows the thermostat housing remounted with an appropriate amount of squeeze-out from the black silicone", (http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/E36-Thermostat/E36-Thermostat.htm). I took it off and reinstalled it with high temp rtv about a year ago and no more leaks.
That's kind of a rant to get to my point. Even if you have to clean up a cheap aluminum housing a bit, if you install it and it does not leak, it will probably last forever.
I used a Nissens radiator at about 90K, probably use a Behr next time. The cost of all aluminum e36 radiators has come down, but they are still more that I would want to spend. The thought occurred to me recently that a second radiator may be necessary sometime in the next year. You are lucky that yours leaked to give you notice. Many have catastrophic failures.
Michael
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Michael
94 325i, 178K miles, original owner
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PJK



Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 1829
Location: Shingle Springs, CA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the info on the Pelicon tech article. I'll look for it.

So far my radiator is just leaking. I think it is the gasket between the plastic tank and the radiator. My new radiator arrives Tuesday and I leave for the SF Bay area on Tuesday for the rest of the week. I guess I'll be living somewhat on the edge. I will take my tools. My wife said if my radiator fails she will bring the new one to me.

Phil



mmaldin wrote:
Phil
I purchased a cheap aluminum thermostat housing probably 10 years ago from Pelican. It was fine for a few years then it had chronic very small leaks that drove me crazy. I removed and changed the seal a couple of times and the leak would come back. I couldn't find a better replacement solution other than OE plastic which I didn't want to use. Then I read the Pelican Tech article on changing the T-stat: "If your head has been damaged by corrosion and electrolysis (Figure-8, then you may want to add some black silicone sealant to the thermostat housing when you install it (Figure 9). Figure 10 shows the thermostat housing remounted with an appropriate amount of squeeze-out from the black silicone", (http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/E36-Thermostat/E36-Thermostat.htm). I took it off and reinstalled it with high temp rtv about a year ago and no more leaks.
That's kind of a rant to get to my point. Even if you have to clean up a cheap aluminum housing a bit, if you install it and it does not leak, it will probably last forever.
I used a Nissens radiator at about 90K, probably use a Behr next time. The cost of all aluminum e36 radiators has come down, but they are still more that I would want to spend. The thought occurred to me recently that a second radiator may be necessary sometime in the next year. You are lucky that yours leaked to give you notice. Many have catastrophic failures.
Michael
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mmaldin



Joined: 19 Oct 2001
Posts: 288
Location: Boulder, CO

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice wife!
The sudden failures that occur are usually when the neck to the hose breaks off. You will be OK. Enjoy your trip.
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Michael
94 325i, 178K miles, original owner
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walshja



Joined: 03 Apr 2001
Posts: 1139
Location: guilford, ct, usa

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey Phil

I bought the aluminum thermostat from Pelican and have had no problems. That was at least 3 years ago.

got my radiator off eBay, was cheaper than going through Pelican. I believe it was the NISSENS ($139), with free shipping !!

check out my posting where you all walked me through my first radiator fix ever !!

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=29212&highlight=radiator

we talked about many of the same questions you have Phil.
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joe

1994 325iC, 195k miles
http://home.comcast.net/~walshja/index.html <--- check it out

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walshja



Joined: 03 Apr 2001
Posts: 1139
Location: guilford, ct, usa

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and that Mishimoto radiator looks great !! I'll probably do the same when my time comes up again.
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joe

1994 325iC, 195k miles
http://home.comcast.net/~walshja/index.html <--- check it out

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PJK



Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 1829
Location: Shingle Springs, CA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday I got the Mishimoto radiator in the car before traveling to the bay area. It turned out the thermostat housing was OK, the profile gasket had failed. My wife picked up one of those from the dealer on her way home.

When I got the hoses off I found that the upper hose was disintegrating on the inside. I got one from Napa. They didn't have the lower hose but it looked OK. With 272 K miles I should do all of the hoses since I rely on this car. I looks like a nasty job as the intake manifold may have to come out. I'm wondering if the upper hose was leaking on the radiator tank causing me to think it was bad. Oh well it is free to any one who wants to take a chance on it.

The Mishimoto install went fairly well but there were a few glitches. The rectangular holes at the top for the retaing clips were a bit to large. I wraped the OEM rectangular bushing with insulating foam tape to make it fit. The nipple for the little hose to the reservior was too close to the upper hose nipple. It was worth my life to get the two hoses on and clamped. The lower hose nipple appears to be a bit low. This made putting the connector back on the level sensor on the reservior difficult.

This radiator did not have the heat exchanger for an automatic tranny. If you have one check before ordering to see if the have one with the automatic tranny heat exchanger.

I didn't do a very good job of bleeding it before I left so the heater output is marginal. I hope it doesn't get very cold before I get home this weekend and bleed it properly.

I'm kind of radiatored out. The day before I did the same job on my Mustang. I put a monster all aluminum radiator on it. Since the car was having heating problems I wanted to check the thermostat. It was fine but a bolt sheared off on the thermostat housing. A screw extrator was usless against it so I had to drill and tap the hole. It was a royal pain but at least when the job was done the heating problem seemed to be gone. The thermostat is rock steady now.

Phil
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mmaldin



Joined: 19 Oct 2001
Posts: 288
Location: Boulder, CO

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of cooling system problems:
I have been reading this and other forums for years learning about these cars and am an avid and knowledgeable DIY’er. I own a 94 325i and 2004 325XIT(wife’s car). The worst case scenario happened to me yesterday while driving the e46. We were driving through a high mountain pass, Trailridge Road in Rocky Mtn Natl Park. We were crossing the continental divide and my low coolant light came on. Being well versed in the weaknesses of the cooling system on these cars, I began watching the temp gauge intensely to see if I was about to have a real problem. Within a few minutes the gauge was lit up red and the needle was pinned. I knew I should have already stopped but the road I was on a narrow 2 lane road with no shoulder. One side of the road was sheer rock, the other was a literally a cliff. I had to drive another 10-15 minutes to get to a safe place to stop. The car was sputtering by then and smoking. Looking under the hood after I stopped, I saw steam coming out of a melted spot on the radiator by the bleeder screw. Wow, I am so bummed.
Now the somewhat good news, the car has 66K miles and has a month left on the CPO warranty. The car was towed to my dealer and I have not spoken with them yet. I am looking for advice as to what I should expect from them and what I should ask for under these circumstances.
The irony here is that the car was due to go in for service this Thursday for inspection to see if there were any problems that may be covered by the CPO before it expires. And, I intended to purchase the Tischer cooling system kit to install right after the CPO was expired.
Thanks.
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94 325i, 178K miles, original owner
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walshja



Joined: 03 Apr 2001
Posts: 1139
Location: guilford, ct, usa

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey Mike, congrats on the under warranty breakdown !!

because this is a warranty repair, the dealer will only fix what's broken, which sounds like your expansion tank. The typical fault of the cooling system on the E36 is the plastic neck on the radiator, not sure if it's the same on your wife's model.

if this was not under warranty the dealer will want you to replace everything, water pump, thermostat, belts and hoses.

keep your fingers crossed the head didn't warp. My wife's E39 cooling system went and she drove the same distance as you, if not further and the head on her E39 was ok.

if you are looking to upgrade your radiator, this is a good time, ask the dealer if they will install an aftermarket radiator while they have everything apart.
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joe

1994 325iC, 195k miles
http://home.comcast.net/~walshja/index.html <--- check it out

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PJK



Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 1829
Location: Shingle Springs, CA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mike,

Bummer about your catastrophic failure. I hope the cylinder head is OK.
I had a catastrophic cooling system failure in my Mustang years ago. After it coole off it was missing badly. I thought I had ruined some valve.
I pulled the plugs to do a compression check. The compression was OK but the plugs were nasty. I sand blasted them and put them back. It ran fine. Of coarst the Mustang has cast iron heads so it is more forgiving of this sort of thing. I would suggest doing a compression test (or leak-down test) and checking the plugs before pulling the head. You may have gotten off fairly clean. Of coarse if the extended warrenty covers it you got of clean in any case.

Last week I did a hasty bleeding of my cooling system before leaving for the Bay Area. I had no overheating problems but the heater barely worked. No big deal as it is warm now but I was bothered that I hadent gotten all the air out. Last night I wasted a silly amount of fuel and coolant bleeding untill I noticed some heat out of the heater. I don't think it is up to normal yet but I am giving it a try. I leave for the Bay Area tonight. This time I'm taking coolant and my antifreeze testor.

Phil



mmaldin wrote:
Speaking of cooling system problems:
I have been reading this and other forums for years learning about these cars and am an avid and knowledgeable DIY’er. I own a 94 325i and 2004 325XIT(wife’s car). The worst case scenario happened to me yesterday while driving the e46. We were driving through a high mountain pass, Trailridge Road in Rocky Mtn Natl Park. We were crossing the continental divide and my low coolant light came on. Being well versed in the weaknesses of the cooling system on these cars, I began watching the temp gauge intensely to see if I was about to have a real problem. Within a few minutes the gauge was lit up red and the needle was pinned. I knew I should have already stopped but the road I was on a narrow 2 lane road with no shoulder. One side of the road was sheer rock, the other was a literally a cliff. I had to drive another 10-15 minutes to get to a safe place to stop. The car was sputtering by then and smoking. Looking under the hood after I stopped, I saw steam coming out of a melted spot on the radiator by the bleeder screw. Wow, I am so bummed.
Now the somewhat good news, the car has 66K miles and has a month left on the CPO warranty. The car was towed to my dealer and I have not spoken with them yet. I am looking for advice as to what I should expect from them and what I should ask for under these circumstances.
The irony here is that the car was due to go in for service this Thursday for inspection to see if there were any problems that may be covered by the CPO before it expires. And, I intended to purchase the Tischer cooling system kit to install right after the CPO was expired.
Thanks.
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PJK



Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 1829
Location: Shingle Springs, CA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It still isn't right. Last night I tested the heater again. With the control in the defalt position for full heat I can get some heat at 3000 RPM. At idle there is no heat.

We still aren't to the point where I need heat but I worry about air trapped in the cylinder head.

Phil
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walshja



Joined: 03 Apr 2001
Posts: 1139
Location: guilford, ct, usa

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil, very weird. I never experienced any of the bleeding problems you and others are facing.

With the new radiator, does the bleeding process change? You still have the same expansion tank setup, with bleeder screw? Could your radiator be sitting a little bit higher, or is taller than the stock radiator, trapping air?

I've read where people would raise the front end a bit, saying they get more coolant in that way.

I'm going to list the obvious things which I'm sure you have done: turning ignition on, temperature on full hot, fan on. then bleed with the bleeder screw out.

Could something be wrong with the heater control? not opening up and allowing coolant to circulate? or was your heater working fine before the radiator swap?
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joe

1994 325iC, 195k miles
http://home.comcast.net/~walshja/index.html <--- check it out

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walshja



Joined: 03 Apr 2001
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Location: guilford, ct, usa

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

or could your new radiator be that much more efficient than stock, and dispersing the heat quicker, and not allowing the heater core to heat up?
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joe

1994 325iC, 195k miles
http://home.comcast.net/~walshja/index.html <--- check it out

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PJK



Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 1829
Location: Shingle Springs, CA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Joe,

This is indead weird. This is worst time I have ever had bleeding this thing. It has never been easy but I always felt I was converging on a solution. In the past I have had a sloped driveway where I did the bleeding. In my present house the driveway is fairly level near my garage and at the points where I have access to water. I do have a spot where my driveway with a substantial slope. My next attempt will be at the point in my driveway where the slope is the greatest. In my early e36 (rotary HVAC cintrols) turning the drivers side full clockwise past the detent make the valve default to full open. That is what I did. The radiator has the same inlets and outlets as the OEM radiator. The accuracy of the locations is not perfect. I dont think that should be significant but I wouldn't rule it out completely.

One possibly which haunts me is that debrit from the bad upper hose and other hoses may have plugged the valve.

All of the remaining hoses are a ticking time bomb and I need to get them out. Bentley is lacking on a procedure to do this. I am doing the reaserch on this and when a have a couple of days together when I don't have to work I plan to get on this.

Phil
walshja wrote:
Phil, very weird. I never experienced any of the bleeding problems you and others are facing.

With the new radiator, does the bleeding process change? You still have the same expansion tank setup, with bleeder screw? Could your radiator be sitting a little bit higher, or is taller than the stock radiator, trapping air?

I've read where people would raise the front end a bit, saying they get more coolant in that way.

I'm going to list the obvious things which I'm sure you have done: turning ignition on, temperature on full hot, fan on. then bleed with the bleeder screw out.

Could something be wrong with the heater control? not opening up and allowing coolant to circulate? or was your heater working fine before the radiator swap?
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