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Need help removing intake manifold
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whiskeybravo



Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 159
Location: Virginia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:25 am    Post subject: Need help removing intake manifold Reply with quote

Ive got a check engine light that is acting very weird and started showing up about two weeks ago, at the same time that I started noticing my car idling just a bit rough, and running just a bit rough in the low RPM range.

The check engine light comes on mostly while I'm sitting a stop light, just idling, and as soon as I give it any gas, it turns off. But I've also seen it come on once or twice while I'm cruising on the highway at a steady 65mph. And it turns itself off after about 30 seconds.

What does this light mean? The Bentley manual told me that when I switch my car to the "ON" position, that it should flash 1,2,3, or 4 times, but it doesn't do any of that. It is either on, or it is off.

Last night, I verified that the ICV is working. I also took out the oil dipstick and watched the engine almost stall (implying that there are no big vacuum leaks elsewhere).

Thanks in advance for the help!
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Last edited by whiskeybravo on Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:23 pm; edited 3 times in total
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idanity



Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 3097
Location: N.W.U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how is your oil level Question

what oil filter are you using (don't use Fram under any circumstances) Question
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whiskeybravo



Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 159
Location: Virginia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oil level is fine. I think I'm using a Mahle filter if I remember correctly. I'm using 5W-30 Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil.

Today I learned I have the Motronic 1.3, and was able to get the fault code out which is 1222. Out of the numerous possible causes it lists, I think the most likely are either a vacuum leak, faulty AFM, or fuel injectors. And I'm pretty sure I hear a vacuum leak... so what are some good ways for trying to find it?
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beejay



Joined: 18 Nov 2002
Posts: 1158
Location: Eastern, Pa

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

try squirting some starting fuid on the areas that you suspect. especially intake track, (manifold, hoses etc) it should increase idle speed when the starting fluid gets sucked in.
Propane can work also but not as well for minute leaks.
check the intake boot. it's always suspect, and you may have to remove it for a good inspection. I've replaced mine already for cracking.

run some techron injector cleaner through the tank also to help clean the injectors.

It also mentions spark plugs for that code so suspect wires too if they are original.
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whiskeybravo



Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 159
Location: Virginia

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So.... intake leak it is. A piece of the gasket is just completely missing. Unless there is some other solution, I now have to replace the gasket (yes I'll do all the intake gaskets).

But the thing is, I just replaced the head about 6 months ago, with brand new gaskets all around (intake included). So what gives? Either it was a faulty gasket (unlikely) or I over or under torqued (which not to be cocky or anything, but is also unlikely because I torqued all the nuts with a torque wrench according to Bentley and had my friend double check my work).

So giving me the benefit of the doubt with my torque-ing, and assuming for a second that the gasket didn't fail, my question is if there are any other underlying problems that could have caused this. I just don't want to go in there, replace the gasket, and then have this happen again 6 more months down the road.

Thanks for the help, squirting some carb cleaner in there made it very easy to verify it was an intake leak.

Oh and that's right... now I have to take the intake manifold off. This may be a dumb question, but is that going to be possible? When I replaced the head I didn't take the manifolds off until after the head was off the engine.
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idanity



Joined: 21 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

its a pita, but do-able, and will be easier, since you know where those bolts hide. (and that they're not rusted on).


b.t.w. when you torqued down all your bolts, did you do it evenly (like a star pattern) or did you start in one corner, torque it, then move to the next.
it is better to have all the bolts on hand tight evenly, than the 1st one at torque while the rest get torqued in a row. being that the 1st one will be greater than the specified torque and provide a lopsided force.

i only say, b.c. it IS very strange that part of your gasket is not there. i would suspect it on your exhaust side, being able to be burned off by the higher temps, but not on the intake side (or not as much anyways)

is there any carbon build up Question
are we talking about the intake manifold (im guessing), or the throttle body ?

and the trick to removing the intake manifold (plenum) is to also remove the thermostat housing at the same time.

it can be done in a few hours if you've never done it (like my 1st time). as a couple of those nuts were hiding very well, and i didn't have it cleared.

it supposedly can come off w/out the removal of the thermostat, but its a tight fit.


i would double check your rubber boots/hoses 1st and make certain that those gaskets are the true culprit.

and if it is, why not buy a used intake, and have it ported/polished so you can get a few ponies in there while your at it (it is pretty easy).
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Last edited by idanity on Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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bimmerjo



Joined: 24 Jun 2006
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Location: Aurora, Mo

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

its possible but just difficult because of the PCV tube that goes from the manifold the the case.
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whiskeybravo



Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 159
Location: Virginia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

idanity: I don't remember what pattern I tightened the nuts down, but I doubt that I started at one side and went to the other. Regardless, this time I'll be much more cognizant of that. Yes, we are talking about the intake manifold. Thanks for the tip about the thermostat.

Quote:
and if it is, why not buy a used intake, and have it ported/polished so you can get a few ponies in there while your at it (it is pretty easy).

-I'm confused... why would I need to buy an intake? Are you thinking there might be something wrong with my current manifold?

bimmerjo: Yea.. that'll be fun...
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beejay



Joined: 18 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would put a straight edge on the manifold (and on the head mating surface) just to make sure all the gasket surfaces are even.
Don't use any type of silicone based gasket sealants. they tend to make things slippery.
Maybe some hylomar or permatex type would be OK.
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tncean



Joined: 26 Feb 2005
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Location: Chattanooga, Tn.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where are you squirting the carb cleaner? Might help to place a straw on the nozzle, squirt directly on the suspected intake leak area, and see if there's an immediate change in engine performance.
Sounds like you were careful on install of head, etc.

Has the engine gotten really hot since the head work?

A "flex joint" or "u joint" for the socket wrench extension mighty handy on removing intake manifold, if it needs to come off.

Check engine light at idle: I just recently had that. It was a torn rubber boot between Idle Control Valve and intake body. I "patched" it with some duct tape and a ring clamp until I found a replacement.
Couple more air leak areas: the large rubber boot between air filter box and intake body will often deterioate and get micro-cracks in it. Another is the air hose between valve cover and throttle body.

Been my experience that a rough-idling engine that smooths out with acceleration is usually air leak related.

Good luck...

tncean
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whiskeybravo



Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 159
Location: Virginia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I squirted the carb cleaner with a straw on it, right where the piece of intake manifold-to-head gasket is missing. The engine has not gotten really hot since the head work to my knowledge. I'll check all those other places for leaks while I'm at it though.

Thanks for the help all.
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idanity



Joined: 21 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whiskeybravo wrote:

Quote:
buy a used intake, and have it ported/polished so you can get a few ponies in there while your at it (it is pretty easy).

-I'm confused... why would I need to buy an intake? Are you thinking there might be something wrong with my current manifold?
.



nothing is wrong w/your original intake manifold, but if your not going to do this right away, you can take your time and have the "new" one ready for the swap (they usually cost around 20 bucks, sometimes w/the injectors and fuel rail).

i have a few "key" extra parts (ecu, afm, fpr, guibo, throttle body, etc) for emergency oem runs (and to test next to finding faults in friends cars too).
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whiskeybravo



Joined: 24 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:22 pm    Post subject: Help Removing Intake Manifold Reply with quote

Ok, so I've got just about everything out of the way in order to take the intake manifold off. The only thing left in the way is the oil dipstick tube. I'm having trouble figuring out how to get the I.M. off. Do I need to remove the oil dipstick tube? If so, how do I do that? I couldn't find it anywhere in my Bentley's.

Thanks for the help
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idanity



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i did not do that.

might yours have been bent inwards at some point ?
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whiskeybravo



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really know.. I'll try and get a picture up at some point. The other problem is I can't figure out how to get the tube that extends from the manifold down to the block, out. I just figured that would come out afterward, but do I need to somehow remove that too?
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