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menuhin
Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 163 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:59 am Post subject: Help!!! Cannot start my car! What's wrong? |
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Hi all,
My car had some starting problems during the cold weather (after I stalled my car for a few times, I could not start) and the problem comes back. This time the car does not start at all. Symptoms are:
- When I tried to turn the key and start the car, there is NO CRANKING NOISE at all
- Some time there is a little bit of "ZZZ" sound, and then the sound goes away; some time there is not a sound at all when I turn the key
- Check light is blinking
- Battery light is on, but I can turn on the head lamps brightly without problem
- Oil light is on, but I have around 1/4 tank left, and it does not drop to the red line yet
Can somebody tell me what is the problem? What should I check, and how?
Thanks a lot! _________________ My E30 101 finished: Red 1986 325es (103K miles only)
- completed: tbelt, h2o pump, rust holes, tie rods, ca & m3 cab, sports s&s, backup light, tranny seals, 3.25 LSD, short shifter
FAREWELL my 325es! |
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m78
Joined: 14 Nov 2001 Posts: 2807 Location: In the great midwest
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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No cranking usually indicates an electrical problem.
Not enough juice in the battery to crank the engine, but enough for headlights. You could also remove your alternator and have it checked at local parts auto parts store.
But I would start with the battery first.
The root of the problem may be your alternator though, and it drained your battery. Did your starting troubles become progressively worse? _________________ Lachssilber Metallic 203 1988 325i sedan with 200,xxx miles
Top Speed 220 km/h
(OO=00=OO) |
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cmcon98
Joined: 13 Nov 2002 Posts: 1844 Location: Boston
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Try to jump start it with booster cables and another car. If you're not sure how to do this, have someone knowlegeable help you. You may just have a bad battery. _________________ Cirrusblau '88 325iC 5-speed
Cosmosschwartz '99 M3 'vert 5-speed |
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menuhin
Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 163 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks m78,
It is progressively worse in a sense that I cannot start my car at all now --- after like 1.5 month not starting it a single time.
In the past, I can usually come in and start it right away. And as I stalked it like > 6 times (I was learning stick shift on it), it will refuse to start with the above symptoms. In those incidents, after I wait for like > 15min, the car can be started again. This may imply that something on the circuit maybe temporarily overloaded during these stalling and starting within a short period of time.
But... I cannot start it at all now.
By the way, should I check the grounding? And how can I trace the grounding connection? As in http://www.unofficialbmw.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=178590#178590
In short, I am looking for a few suggestions to diagnose the car properly, so that I can find out the real problem _________________ My E30 101 finished: Red 1986 325es (103K miles only)
- completed: tbelt, h2o pump, rust holes, tie rods, ca & m3 cab, sports s&s, backup light, tranny seals, 3.25 LSD, short shifter
FAREWELL my 325es!
Last edited by menuhin on Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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vinleb
Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 122 Location: Boston North Shore
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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How old is the battery? If its really old it could be a bad battery but as M78 stated this could likely be an alternator or voltage regulator issue.
If/ when you get to looking at your alternator take the time to remove your air box.
To get at the voltage regulator there are two screws on the back of the alternator use a short screwdriver (most newer VR's are philips head but mine were slotted) take out the screws and you can pull the voltage regulator brush assembly out. Check the length of the brushes, they should not be less than 5mm long. _________________
The Red Baron |
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menuhin
Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 163 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks vinleb,
The battery is like 5 years old
I'll check the alternator brush and voltage regulator and then report here
I also found something like that:
Quote: | Best thing to do is get a pocket multi-meter.
Battery at rest is about 12.9 volts.
Battery at Run is about 13.9+ volts.
If you are running, and the voltage is LESS than battery at rest--your alternator is NOT charging the battery.
If your voltage is low when you turn the lights and other stuff on, your alternator may be weak. |
And that:
Quote: | Problem: Vehicle will not start
Model: BMW 325e
Complaint:
Although the starter will engage, the instrument panel lights are on, and other electrical items can be operated, the vehicle will not start.
Remedy:
This could be caused due to no voltage at the battery junction block at the 6mm2 black wire, which is located in the engine compartment, which will result in no electrical current to the DME main relay and fuel pump.
To remedy:
Open the harness and inspect the fusible link which is located approx 6 inches from the battery + terminal. If the fusible link is open then use an ohmmeter on the vehicle side of the link to ascertain if a short to the ground has caused the fusible link to open. Replace the fusible link if:
- A short to the ground is discovered. Correct the short before replacing the fusible link.
- No short is found then the fusible link open may be due to a brief overload. |
But I am not sure, and can somebody tell me? --- "Although the starter will engage..." --- I could not hear any cranking noise when I turned the key, SO, did the starter "engage" in my car? _________________ My E30 101 finished: Red 1986 325es (103K miles only)
- completed: tbelt, h2o pump, rust holes, tie rods, ca & m3 cab, sports s&s, backup light, tranny seals, 3.25 LSD, short shifter
FAREWELL my 325es! |
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m78
Joined: 14 Nov 2001 Posts: 2807 Location: In the great midwest
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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If the starter is engaging, you would hear the engine cranking.
If it simply clicks or does nothing when you turn the key, then likely the starter is not getting voltage enough to crank.
A five year old battery, is more than likely your culprit. Plus it sounds like you don't drive the car that much? If that is true then one winter can do a battery in. _________________ Lachssilber Metallic 203 1988 325i sedan with 200,xxx miles
Top Speed 220 km/h
(OO=00=OO) |
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kyshadetreebmw
Joined: 16 Apr 2003 Posts: 849 Location: Berea, Kentucky
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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It is your battery. You are due to replace it. Just put in a new battery before you do anything else. |
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menuhin
Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 163 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Thanks kyshadetreebmw & m78,
Yesterday night, I checked the receipts of car repair that were handed in to me: The car battery turns out to be LESS THAN 2 YEARS OLD - it was changed 2006 November
Please correct me if I am going the wrong direction,
I am going to check 3 things in the coming weekend:
1. 12V across the car battery in trunk
2. Voltage regulator brush length (should be > 5mm)
I am not going to bother the fusible link as my starter does not engage at all. If my battery is doing OK (as the headlamps were bright), then I think I have to trace the circuit that contribute to not having enough current to the run the starter. What circuit should I check for then - should I trace the ground wiring?
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=178590#178590
If yes, what are the wires that I am going to look for? _________________ My E30 101 finished: Red 1986 325es (103K miles only)
- completed: tbelt, h2o pump, rust holes, tie rods, ca & m3 cab, sports s&s, backup light, tranny seals, 3.25 LSD, short shifter
FAREWELL my 325es!
Last edited by menuhin on Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jlevie
Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 553 Location: Huntsvile, AL
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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It really sounds like your battery is too low to start the car. If you see less than 12.4v across the battery, it is probably too deeply discharged. Charging the battery or a jumpstart would then be the logical alternatives. _________________ NASA and BMW Certified instructor
Spec E30 #96 (NASA-SE) |
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menuhin
Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 163 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks jlevie, kyshadetreebmw & m78, for your diagnoses
I measured the voltage across my battery and I got only 11.14V
I think I need to try doing a jump start; and at the same time, if I can really start my car then test the voltage while running (should be 13.9V+ ?) to see if my alternator is OK _________________ My E30 101 finished: Red 1986 325es (103K miles only)
- completed: tbelt, h2o pump, rust holes, tie rods, ca & m3 cab, sports s&s, backup light, tranny seals, 3.25 LSD, short shifter
FAREWELL my 325es! |
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jlevie
Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 553 Location: Huntsvile, AL
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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With the battery that low, when doing the jumpstart run the donor vehicle for 5-10 minutes at a fast idle to pump some charge back into the battery. Otherwise the dead battery may pull down the system voltage below the point that is needed for starting. _________________ NASA and BMW Certified instructor
Spec E30 #96 (NASA-SE) |
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m78
Joined: 14 Nov 2001 Posts: 2807 Location: In the great midwest
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Doesn't the alternator only recharge the battery when the car is at highway speed?
Or am I mistaken on that?
And regardless, if you get it started by jumping it, you might do well to go back to the place the battery was bought and ask for a warranty replacement. Most car batteries are warranteed for at least 2-3 years, some are lifetime warranties. _________________ Lachssilber Metallic 203 1988 325i sedan with 200,xxx miles
Top Speed 220 km/h
(OO=00=OO) |
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vinleb
Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 122 Location: Boston North Shore
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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M78 is right. If you get it started and want to see if the alternator is charging the battery you need to increase your RPM to 1500 to 2000 before you look for the 13+ volts |
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menuhin
Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 163 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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I was able to start it once using a jump-starter. I let it run for a few minutes and then I turned it off.
On the next day, I lowered the car from jack stands, and got ready to drive it out for some gas - for running the engine for a while to charge the battery. I used the jump starter again, but it won't start. The engine cranked for a bit slowly but was not started successfully. I had a friend used a jump cable, and the engine cranked for a bit and then slowed down and died. In every of these occasions, all lights and the dashboards lights etc got VERY VERY DIM - they were almost gone when the key was turned, no matter the engine cranked or not.
I am really puzzled now - because I should be able to jump start it if it is just the problem of the battery. I plan to do a few things to sort out the problem:
0. get a full tank of gas (now it is 1/4 tank only)
1. take out the 11.1V battery and have it fully recharged
(As jlevie said, it may be crucial for me to run the donor vehicle / connect the jump starter for 5-10+ minute to pump some charge back into the battery; but I have to fix the battery anyway, so I am going to recharge it and see)
2. trace and check the connections
- from battery to starter
- starter to ground, engine to ground (?)
- wirings to alternator
- wirings to starter
- the fusible link in front of the + terminal (?)
3. check if there is any drain and short circuit point in the connections
4. check alternator health, and its brush if it is not charging the battery _________________ My E30 101 finished: Red 1986 325es (103K miles only)
- completed: tbelt, h2o pump, rust holes, tie rods, ca & m3 cab, sports s&s, backup light, tranny seals, 3.25 LSD, short shifter
FAREWELL my 325es!
Last edited by menuhin on Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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