Unofficialbmw.com

[Gary Scheffe]

I'm at a crossroads as to what to do regarding my son's car. The car is a gray market 1984 323i, 6 cyl, 5-speed, which seems to be kind of a rare animal. Several weeks back, the car stalled on him and would not restart. We were unable to get it re-started on the roadside, so we towed it home. The engine would turn over, but would not give any sign of firing. I'm not a very accomplished mechanic, but going by the old "an engine needs three things to run" approach, I began trying to narrow down what might be the problem. By loosening one of the rubber fuel lines in the engine compartment and cranking the starter, I was able to determine that fuel was getting to the engine area. Next, I pulled a spark plug and grounded it. While my son cranked the car over I could see a very visible spark. I tried this on another plug and observed the same results. As a last resort, I sprayed starting fluid in the cylinder and replaced the plug, cranked it over and again, no sign of life whatsoever. I removed the radiator fan and upper timing belt cover to check the condition of the timing belt and it appeared to be in good condition. After browsing this board for hrs and mulling over what other obvious things might be wrong, I decided I had investigated all of the obvious things that might be the problem, so I towed it in to a mechanic. He confirmed that when the timing marks lined up the the engine was still at TDC. He then ran a compression check and determined that there was no (minimal) compression in any of the cylinders. He told me that he really couldn't diagnose anything further without tearing into it. Of course, this could run into a few hundered dollars and the end result might be that the needed repairs would be cost prohibitive. My question to this board is: what would cause the engine to suddenly lose compression - overheating, over-revving, blown head gasket? My son claims that the engine did not overheat nor did he run it hard. Of course he's 19, so who knows what the real story is. Anyway, I'm at a crossroads on what to do. Tear the engine down? An engine swap? Both of these options are probably beyond my mechanical capabilities, but I hate to give up on this classic car. Any suggestions or thoughts from the board on how I should proceed would be appreciated. Also, if there is anyone in the Houston area who is interested in this car or any mechanic out there who would like to earn a few extra $ by coaching me through this, please let me know and maybe we can set up a time to meet. Sorry this post ran so long and thanks in advance.

[peerless]

I would go buy a compression gauge ($40) and do a compression test myself. If the timing marks are indeed at TDC and everything lines up then there should be compression.

I think the mechanic might be looking for work. Get it home and start working on it. We can all help you out, as most of us here have great amounts of experience. We can walk you through just about anything.

It would also be a good 'Father-Son' project, if your both willing participants.

323's are getting to be in short supply, so if it is a bad motor, you will most likely want to rebuild. Or you could swap in a more modern 2.7 or 2.5.

Anyway you go, doing it all yourself,..expect to spend upwards of 2k to be realistic and get the job done right. Maybe less, maybe more.

I vote to get the car home and start doing a little wrench time. We are right here to help.

Good Luck with the project.
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Robert

E30 Repair and Maintenance Services
714-398-8405

[91 318is]

I find it hard to believe that there isn't compression in any cylinder. If it didn't have any compression it would turnover very fast like it didn't have any spark plugs in it ???
I agree with peerless ,get it home and try your own compression test.
Good Luck

[85-325e]

I think that mechanic needs work. Do your own compression test!
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Cosmo - 1985 BMW 325e, Single Owner, 265,000+ ORIGINAL miles and still going strong! But now on the East Coast and the salt air corrosion is eating my beautiful car alive...

[idanity]

the Bentley stated

a. failed ignition (this is the good news)

b. broken camshaft drive belt or timing chain

c. incorrect camshaft timing due to jumped or incorrectly installed belt/chain.


no compression is a bad sign indeed...

verify your belt/chain is in tact..
then work from there,
remove the valve cover, and rotate the crank, IF ALL GOES WELL you will see the cam rotating w/it..
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[idanity]

i would take your sons word on it, even if he did drive it hard, at least it wasnt a rented ferrari...

weve all done our good/bad deals, and seems to me, if it was the t/belt theres not much he couldve done to prevent it BESIDES regular maintenence IF IT WAS b. or c....


and of course..
the GOOD news is you have fuel and spark...
i recently blew a head bolt after getting my valves adjusted, and this board helped me remove, rebuild, re-install my motor/tranny/exhaust and my toolbox consists of a small set of handtools, and mini metric set (w/new torx socket set added)...

if the T.BELT or something seriouse, i would get a used motor, and new clutch kit, ...

i know its impossible to let the car go, and it will run again..andwhen it does, you will feel twice the love for it, b/c these cars are intuitive to rebuild..(i guess, i dont have anything to compare it to, but -it all went pretty well for me,)...

be happy you have a son to help ya w/it..
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[Gary Scheffe]

Thanks guys for all your suggestions. This board is great! I guess my next purchase needs to be a compression gauge. I doubt if I'll get to work on it until this weekend, but I'll post my findings after I do my own compression test. By the way, I also have an 87 325 which I drive myself. Currently, I'm in the process of prepping it for a new paint job.

[dale]

When was the Tbelt last changed on your 323i?
If it's old, it may be that it jumped a tooth. 1 tooth is all it takes to bend all of your exhaust valves. With bent exhaust valves, you have no compression.

Does the motor spin over really fast compared to your 87 325? If it does, it's because there is no compression to slow down the starter.

This is what happened to my 325i race car last summer, rebuilt the head, all is fine. You can save money by just installing new exhaust valves and not doing a total head rebuild.

Dale
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sold in 2016
87 325 5spd eta

[tncean]

check with Autozone, etc, to rent a compression gauge.

tncean

[91 318is]

Let us know how you make out with your investigations this weekend .

[Gary Scheffe]

Dale - just from the quick visual inspection of the timing belt that I did a few weeks ago, I didn't notice anything that would indicate that it was worn. Is there an easy way to determine if it slipped or jumped a tooth? Also, I didn't really notice that the engine turned over any faster than normal when I was trying to start it, but then again, that wasn't something that I would have known to listen for. I'll pay attention to that when I get back to it - hopefully this weekend. Thanks for the suggestion.

[haber]

I think we need to back this train up a little? I'm with the others in thinking the "no compression" mechanic might be feeding you a line to generate work.

Simple test.. remove plugs-does it spin fast? Insert plugs.. does it crank over and sound more normal?

Now, assuming the compression thing is a wasted tangent. The car just died, right. Much more likely that a relay failed. I'm not very familiar with the 323 but if it has a fuel injection relays like the 325 that could be the culprit. Just because you have fuel, do you have fuel pressure and do the injectors really open? If you have spark that is good and should indicate the computer is OK, however there could be a number of other things that killed the fuel supply. I had a friend with intermittent stalling and such and it was just the FI relay going bad.

I hope it is this simple...
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-------- -x--x-- SI ByePass

[Pirate323i]

[Gary Scheffe]

Good suggestions by all. I'd love to believe that my problem is "only" a bad relay. One of the problems that I've had in the past when working on this car is that, because it's apparently a Euro model, it's been difficult to obtain information about the locations of relays, fuses, etc. When previously working on the headlights, I had to identify the high and low beam relays and fuses by trial and error. Even though the fuse box is the same in appearance as my E30 325, the fuses and relay positions are in a different order. If I find that I've got compression, I'll do another search and read up on how to test the injectors and other fuel delivery components. Any other thoughts are welcome. Thanks again.

[roly]

The fuel injection system on the 323i is the older Bosch LE-Jetronic as opposed to the Motronic that all US cars have. The main difference is that the L-Jetronic ECU controls the fuel delivery side of things only. The Motronic ECU also controls the ignition timing. The Jetronic ignition timing is manually adjustable.
Hope that clears things up.
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"The Bavarian Falcon"
84 E30 323i Manual sedan,3.46 LSD.
Bronzitbeige-metallic.240k KM.