Unofficialbmw.com

[markf]

So now that the spanish people have greatly encouraged Al Quaida, by capitualating to them, their biggest victory since 911... would you not all assume that Italy is next?

Its as if the Spanish have litterally invited Al Quaida to attach Italy.
(in my view)

And would it not be logical that, in light of such a victory, something very bad will happen in the US just prior to our upcoming elections?

Curious observation: The new spanish president has stated that, "fighting terrorism is his top priority"
SO... he's pulling spanish troops from Iraq.

Interesting Stratagy..

Sounds like a first rate 2nd rate man.

What are your thoughts..?

[JRS]

Politics... I try not to dabble in it unless seriously provoked. And this is one of those times...

Spain will be the next France. The French 'hate' us for our involvement. But the bottomline is: If we didn't intervene, the Frech wouldn't be speaking French today.

Sayonara, Amigos! In the next language, make sure your stress the "h"... pretend you're clearing your throat... that's how the new language works.

On the same tangent... I ask anyone: If you see a sleeping copperhead rattler 10 feet away from a 2 year old, would you:

A) Take the nearest rock and smash the rattler.

B) Run real fast, grab the toddler hoping not to wake the rattler

C) Do nothing. Everything seems peaceful.


I choose A.

What would you choose and why ?

JRS
JRS

[markf]

Agreed.
Hey.. you know what? I own a model 1939 French MAS 7.5mm military rifle in NEW condition.. As you probably know.. it had never been fired, and only dropped once.

[ 03-15-2004: Message edited by: markf ]

[Billo]

Sex, Religion, and Politics...

Three things my mom told me never to discuss in public.

Bill

P.S. I rushed off too fast. Shoot the snake, protect the baby at all costs, Nuke the french and let God sort 'em out. I share your hobby Mark, I have a model 38 Italian Carcano (w/fixed bayonet 7.35 mm). Worth what I paid for it ($35). Never been fired, dropped only once...

[ 03-16-2004: Message edited by: Billo ]

[markf]

Baa-Hahaha... yea Billo.. My french MAS is worth the $80 I paid for it. Only because it is a real conversation piece.
It is the only military firearm EVER manufactured, which does NOT have a saftey. NONE..! No safety mechanism at all..

Guess they figured there wouldn't be much call for one... But if you ask me.. Its a real necessity ...especially if your gonna drop it.

Bet you have about the same luck I do, when trying to find ammo..
7.35mm..?
7.5mm ..?

Im thinking of having it rebarreled in 8mm. Probably blow up in my face, like an arab backpack.

Hey... aimsurplus.com has German KAR 98's which were captured at Stalingrad.

one lot is in great condition, and for a few extra bucks, you can get one with the Nazi armory stampings still intact. (eagle and swastika)

They're about twice as expensive as a Mauser should go for ($179) but given their history.. I been thinking about one.

'specially since I have a class 03 license...

[Roadstergal]

The attack in Spain was far from the only issue on the table that lead to the change in leadership. The vast majority of the Spanish populace opposed the US-lead attack in Iraq; one directly opposes the will of the electorate at one's own risk. Also, many Spaniards felt that the President had lied to them concerning the scope and impact of the Prestige tanker wreck, and had not handled that crisis well.
The Spanish government was not overthrown by an attack; the people instigated a regime change, and for what appear to be rather good reasons.

If nothing else, the attack is evidence that Al Quieda is hardly hampered by the actions of the past three years. The actions were not well-thought-out if the goal was to cripple Al Quieda.

For all of the the-French-only-exist-because-of-us-ers, BTW, we only exist because of France's massive military and financial assistance against Great Britain. How far back do debts go? (Oh, and the French underground saved the lives of many US pilots that were shot down behind enemy lines in WWII, and they embarked on a campaign of sabotage that hampered the Nazis in preparation for D-Day. Many of the officials kowtowed, but much of the populace didn't.)

[Roadstergal]

quote:

---

Originally posted by markf:
Curious observation: The new spanish president has stated that, "fighting terrorism is his top priority"
SO... he's pulling spanish troops from Iraq.

Interesting Stratagy..

---

The suspicion is that Al Quieda was behind the attacks. Even the Bush administration has stated publicly that Iraq had no role in supporting Al Quieda attacks. Osama Bin Laden hated Saddam - thought he was an infidel.

[Roadstergal]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JRS:
On the same tangent... I ask anyone: If you see a sleeping copperhead rattler 10 feet away from a 2 year old, would you:

A) Take the nearest rock and smash the rattler.

B) Run real fast, grab the toddler hoping not to wake the rattler

C) Do nothing. Everything seems peaceful.


I choose A.

What would you choose and why ?

---

Interesting allegory. But to make it relevant, I would change it to:

You bring a rattler into your neighborhood because you think it will help keep the neighbors in check. Several years later, your 2-year-old barely makes it home alive after multiple stings from a swarm of hornets. Do you:

a) Run through all of your neighbor's yards and houses looking for a hornet's nest.

b) Try to persuade your neighbors to help you find and eliminate the hornet's nest.

c) Run through all of your neighbor's yards and houses with a rock, smashing the rattler once you find it.

d) Try to persuade your neighbors to help you find and eliminate the rattler.

I would go for b, although a is understandable. I don't consider it a good idea to go for c modified slightly with d. Certinaly the rattler is not a good thing to have slithering around, but since we brought it into the neighborhood, it behooves us to be a little deferential when asking for help with its elimination, and to turn on the rattler instead of the hornets when the hornets are the immediate threat is a little widdershins.

[markf]

quote

Quote:

b) Try to persuade your neighbors to help you find and eliminate the hornet's nest.

Unfortunetly, its those neighbors who are raising the hornets.

quote

Quote:

The vast majority of the Spanish populace opposed the US-lead attack in Iraq;

This is what our media would have you believe.(showing only scenes from Spain which reflect their political interests)

But, election results would indicate that you are mistaken on your assumtion that the 'Vast Majority' was against the war.

election results


Party seat count

The facts seem to indicate that warmongers had a slight majority. The bombings changed a few minds.. but not as many as you would have us believe.

True.. there were other issues.. but before the bombings, the popular party was the projected winner.

quote

Quote:

The Spanish government was not overthrown by an attack; the people instigated a regime change, and for what appear to be rather good reasons.

I disagree. Terrorists influenced the vote by instilling fear into the populus. This amounts to violent foriegn intervention, leading to the overthrow of the government.
Also..
Why are all you lefties refering to conservative governments as 'Regimes', now... when I could say the same about a liberal government which imposes too much taxation to subsidize the fat of the land in all its many forms..?
A 'Regime' cannot be voted out, and I find the term offensive. Try to fix that.. ok..?

quote

Quote:

If nothing else, the attack is evidence that Al Quieda is hardly hampered by the actions of the past three years. The actions were not well-thought-out if the goal was to cripple Al Quieda.

As we all know.. this cannot be verified.
Its just as easy for me to state that, Had we not done what we did, there could have been a dozen 911's by now... right?

Statements like this reflect the sensationalism of the biased liberal media.

..and while Im on the subject of biased media... how come we only got to see brief footage on a single evening, of the thousands of Spaniards in the streets, demanding an 'Eye for an Eye'..? Why arent we seeing that one over and over?

anyway.. Opinions are like hemorrhoids, right?
Sooner or later, every assh*le has one..

No ill feelings, and Best wishes, always.

[Jarvis]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Billo:
Nuke the french

---

that's been a personal motto of mine for years!

[Roadstergal]

quote:

---

Originally posted by markf:
Unfortunetly, its those neighbors who are raising the hornets.

---

We are as implicated as many of the neighbors.

quote:

---

Originally posted by markf:
But, election results would indicate that you are mistaken on your assumtion that the 'Vast Majority' was against the war.

---

Election results are based on more than just one issue. On that issue: http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/03/29/sprj.irq.spain/

quote:

---

Originally posted by markf:
but before the bombings, the popular party was the projected winner.

---

As you can see from the above, doubts about the Popular Party's viability did not spring up after the attack; they were already well in place.

quote:

---

Originally posted by markf:
Statements like this reflect the sensationalism of the biased liberal media.

---

No, it's a reasonable conclusion from the availabile evidence. Do you contest that Iraq had no role in the September 11th attacks? Do you contest that Osama Bin Laden hated Saddam Hussein (partly because of the support he recived in the 80s from Western countries)? Do you contest that we are investing a great number of resources in Iraq, a place that was not a bastion of Al Quieda activity?

quote:

---

Originally posted by markf:
I disagree. Terrorists influenced the vote by instilling fear into the populus. This amounts to violent foriegn intervention, leading to the overthrow of the government.
Also..
Why are all you lefties refering to conservative governments as 'Regimes', now... when I could say the same about a liberal government which imposes too much taxation to subsidize the fat of the land in all its many forms..?
A 'Regime' cannot be voted out, and I find the term offensive. Try to fix that.. ok..?

---

How do you know I'm a leftie? I haven't mentioned much about my political leanings.
There was great dissatisfaction with the Prime Minister and the Popular Party before the attacks, and their star was slipping in Spain. All of this happened pre-attack:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2935992.stm http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/may2003/spai-m17.shtml http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/sep2003/spai-s23_prn.shtml

I use the term "regime" in the bolded definition:

Main Entry: re·gime
Variant(s): also ré·gime /rA-'zhEm, ri- also ri-'jEm/
Function: noun
Etymology: French régime, from Latin regimin-, regimen
a : mode of rule or management b : a form of government <a socialist regime> c : a government in power <predicted that the new regime would fall> d : a period of rule

And I consider it to be utterly appropriate. I used it to refer to the Clinton Administration, when he was in power. A regime can be voted out, and I won't 'fix' something that ain't broke.

quote:

---

Originally posted by markf:
..and while Im on the subject of biased media... how come we only got to see brief footage on a single evening, of the thousands of Spaniards in the streets, demanding an 'Eye for an Eye'..? Why arent we seeing that one over and over?

---

TV is crap. I avoid it. There are much better sources of information available.

quote:

---

Originally posted by markf:
No ill feelings, and Best wishes, always.

---

Agreed. I debate, but only beacuse I believe we all do what we think is best.

[Roadstergal]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jarvis:


that's been a personal motto of mine for years!

---

Why?

[Jarvis]

Because it's an EXCELLENT IDEA, that's why.
"Nuke France" is a great closer in any political debate.

[Roadstergal]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jarvis:
Because it's an EXCELLENT IDEA, that's why.

---

Why is it?

[donaldan]

Let me chime in for what it is worth. I don't claim to be righteous nor correct, but I like to learn from history. It roils me when we have to back off from assualt of evil forces especially when it concerns our country and directly or indirectly affects my life. You think by being peaceful and backing down, the enemy will stop? Haven't we learned the lesson of 9/11, Japanese imperial expansion, Hitler's domination of Europe and Starlin's Iron Curtain? Is our memory that short? Should we follow Spain and retreat from Iraq. No, that is pure cowardice. Woes will come to our doorsteps if we don't fight them.