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Multiple Electrical Probs All at once-What are odds of that?

 
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Fredster



Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 3
Location: So Shore, MA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:18 pm    Post subject: Multiple Electrical Probs All at once-What are odds of that? Reply with quote

2000 528iTa Touring Wagon E-39 115K Miles

I love the car but can't afford what the BMW Dealer wants to do. Here's the story (I have no idea if any of these issues are related or unrelated):

This issue started out as with rear lights that would not work. But the bulbs were still good and would miraculously start working again when I pulled, inspected and put them back in. Then the sound system stopped recognizing the CD changer. As if it wasn’t even there. Then as I was driving down the road, three idiot lights would come on all at the same time: the yellow DSC light, the red brake like, and the red ABS light. Sometimes when this happened, the navigation system would lock up and stop giving commands, sometimes it would work, but eventually it would stop working - even though the NAV screen was still showing the last good image. Finally, the entire computer screen went blank.

The AM/FM radio will only play for a specified period of time and then cut out, even though the power light stays on. If I turn the radio off and back on again, it would work again but only for a few minutes. Then the ventilation system blower started varying its speed from low to high then back down again like it had a mind of its own. I had to disconnect the battery because the blower wouldn't turn off even when I turn off the car.

I took the car to BMW and they replaced the final stage of the blower system and replaced a bad connector and for that charged me $540.

Then they wanted to replace the NAV system for $3,400.

This seems rediculous to me. How can all these things go wrong at once? For example, is it logical that the NAV system and the CD Changer go bad at the same time, or wouldn't it be logical that since they are both sitting next to each other in the car, that it's something related to both like power or something else?

BMW Dealer reaction to every problem is to replace it with a new one, rather than seek out the possible cause.

Also, when I ask the dealer, "Why can't you simply disconect the NAV system and diagnose the problem further from there?" The Dealer says they can not diagnose the problem any further until the NAV system is replaced because everything in this car is wrired together, and of course this is $3,400. NUTS!

Can anyone help?
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WerewolfCustoms



Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 5
Location: Slovenia, EU

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a E39 pro, and electrical systems are the last thing I would fix myself, but here are a few tips:

1. GO TO ANOTHER DEALER! Make some phone calls, someone will try to diagnose and fix the problem. After all, you're the customer!

2. You're probably right. It really looks like there's one common cause for all your problems.

3. Did you check your car's fault codes? (Just a thought...)

4. From the description you wrote, I would GUESS that you have a ground fault, or a short circuit somewhere... Not expensive to fix, but it takes a lot of time, patience and strong nerves... Believe me!

5. Good luck Smile
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edjack



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 3887
Location: San Jose, CA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are you going to the dealer? They are least able to help. You need to find a well-respected indie. Log onto checkbook.com to find a good BMW wrench in your area.

Try this test: when the car is running, pull down the passenger visor, and turn on the light. If that invokes the weird problems, you need a new ignition switch.
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Fredster



Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 3
Location: So Shore, MA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>> 3. Did you check your car's fault codes? (Just a thought...)

Reply: The dealer said there was only 1 fault code stored and it had to do with a wheel spin sensor. Something having to do with the NAV system and how it can sense how fast the wheels are spining so it can judge distance and time while navigating.


>> 4. From the description you wrote, I would GUESS that you have a ground fault, or a short circuit somewhere... Not expensive to fix, but it takes a lot of time, patience and strong nerves... Believe me!

Reply: So can you either confirm or deny the dealer's claim that the problem can not be diagnosed further unless the NAV system is replaced ($3,400).

This sounds suspect to me, not to mention the fact that I can get a Garmin unit for $100 on sale.
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Fredster



Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 3
Location: So Shore, MA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>> Why are you going to the dealer? They are least able to help. You need to find a well-respected indie. Log onto checkbook.com to find a good BMW wrench in your area.

Reply: The dealer is the only option I can find. The nearest "wrench" I can find is 2 hours away. I went to checkbook.com and got basically nothing except for the guy 2 hours away.

>> Try this test: when the car is running, pull down the passenger visor, and turn on the light. If that invokes the weird problems, you need a new ignition switch.[/quote]

When I try this there is no change. But I completely appreciate your attempt to help me. I really feel like I'm stuck. Most places will not want to look at a BMW with electrical problems and the dealer is disreputable, and wants to charge me 10 times more than what things cost. You can get a new NAV unit used on line for $250. The dealer wants $3,400 for a new one installed.

I would just buy the used one and put it in myself if I trusted that they were telling me the truth when they said the one in my car needs to be replaced. I don't believe it.
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WerewolfCustoms



Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 5
Location: Slovenia, EU

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fredster wrote:
>> 3. Did you check your car's fault codes? (Just a thought...)

Reply: The dealer said there was only 1 fault code stored and it had to do with a wheel spin sensor. Something having to do with the NAV system and how it can sense how fast the wheels are spining so it can judge distance and time while navigating.


So, try fixing this first.

Quote:

>> 4. From the description you wrote, I would GUESS that you have a ground fault, or a short circuit somewhere... Not expensive to fix, but it takes a lot of time, patience and strong nerves... Believe me!

Reply: So can you either confirm or deny the dealer's claim that the problem can not be diagnosed further unless the NAV system is replaced ($3,400).

This sounds suspect to me, not to mention the fact that I can get a Garmin unit for $100 on sale.


If this is really the problem, installing a new NAV system won't help. (except if the NAV unit itself was the cause of the short circuit). If replacing a nav unit doesn't solve the problem, will they take the newly installed NAV unit back and refund you the cost?

Then, why don't you take your NAV system out of your car, and install it into someone else's car, that's working correctly? That way you'll see if your NAV unit is the culprit... If it works alright in another car, you'll know that it's not broken.

Diagnosing a bad ground or a short circuit IS possible with the navigation still in the car. BUT it's a looooong procedure, and if they have sky-high labor prices...

You could check all the relays, and then move on. It's a long shot, but you would feel like a complete idiot if you'd spend one week searching for the problem, and found it in the fuses box (or under the dash). Rolling Eyes

If, in the end, they still insist on you buying a new NAV, buy a used one and bring it to them. Better to spend 250$ than 3400.
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edjack



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 3887
Location: San Jose, CA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The car has many ground points, characterized by a handful of brown wires terminated on a block that is bolted to the body. There are two in the rear. On the sedan, they are below the right talllight. Bentley's is obscure as to where they are on the wagon.

Since some of the problems are at rear-mounted accessories, you should hunt down these ground points, and make sure they are clean and tight.
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'97 540i 6 speed Aspensilber over Aubergine interior.
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WerewolfCustoms



Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 5
Location: Slovenia, EU

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly!

There are two more main points where the ground terminals are bolted to the chasis:
Under the dash, left side (where the installation comes from the engine compartment/fuse box), and on the right side, where the control units are.
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druggrepp



Joined: 29 Sep 2002
Posts: 69
Location: texas

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: wiring gremlin Reply with quote

I had similar problems when a car wash sank my gps.
Turns out the car runs a bus circuit ck every 2 minutes and if the gps is bad the radio shuts off. So i had to turn the radio back on every 2 minutes or replace the gps used for $500.
Also a lot of dash warning lites lit up. My buddy at bmw told me to take off the negative battery cable for 10 minutes and let everything reset.
it worked. Just dont close the trunk w cable off or your are screwed, I almost did it.
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