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Racing E30s...
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85-325e



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 4712
Location: Southampton, NY

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 1:11 pm    Post subject: Racing E30s... Reply with quote

Great Reply Lance!

So, Pro-3 is a class in which many cars fall. These aren't just E30s out there. Knowing my own car, I can definitely understand the brick in the wind concept! They handle SO #^$%#$ well though.

Why do the Japanese brakes fail so fast? Small rotors, lousy pads, overheating?

Acceleration on these cars must be great. So, the E30s are chipped. Do you guys use stock chips like Bav Auto, etc.?
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Lance Richert



Joined: 12 Feb 2001
Posts: 29
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 1:36 pm    Post subject: Racing E30s... Reply with quote

Actually, in this race class up here in the Pacific Northwest, Pro-3 is just for 6-cylinder E30s. But we are out on track with other race cars running in other classes at the same time. We are "sharing" the track, so to speak, though when you hook up with a car in another class that is the same relative speed, you usually have a nice race with them. In this race that Dale and I were in, There were 5 BMW Pro-3 cars on track with around 30 other cars running in a half dozen classes also. Some are faster than our Pro-3 cars, some are slower. The track is 2.25 miles long, and they can put up to 55 race cars out for a session. Part of racing skill is being able to manage traffic, both as a fast car, and as a slow car. Our Pro-3 cars fall in the middle. The fastest cars in our class will lap us about 2/3rd through the race. We'll lap some of the slower cars ourselves.

The Pro-3 guys are racing each other for trophies in class, and points for an end of the year championship. There are 14 races total in our series, at 5 different race tracks, in Washington, Oregon, British Columbia and Cal.

But this is amateur road racing, very few racers make all the races. So far Dale's been a good boy and made the first three races for 2004. This race was my first for the year. Even at this local level, the cost to drive these cars are not cheap, so most people pick and choose a few races each year to attend.

As for brakes, we have to run stock calipers and rotors. We can run any pad compound we want, and we direct vent the rotors with 3" flexible hoses from the front air dam. We also cryo-treat the rotors. Our cars have to weigh 2,650 lbs minimum with driver at the end of the race. Most of the Pro-3 cars need to add a little ballast to have them make the minimum weight.

Brakes are just one area where BMWs commitment to good performance parts helps in these mostly stock racing classes. With nobody being able to run big brake kits, you have to make do with what the factory put on the car. And as we all know, BMW put great brakes on their street cars, which translates to good performance for a 30 minute race on a 9-turn track that is traditionally hard on brakes!
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85-325e



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 4712
Location: Southampton, NY

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 1:58 pm    Post subject: Racing E30s... Reply with quote

Thanks Lance! Do yu have to have special certification to drive in these races? Overall, how do the E30s do against everyone else on the track? So, in all races combined, how many different E30s do you see racing in the class?

[ 05-24-2004: Message edited by: 85-325e ]
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Lance Richert



Joined: 12 Feb 2001
Posts: 29
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 3:20 pm    Post subject: Racing E30s... Reply with quote

Yes, they have a "Rookie" program (actually called a Novice Program) that people go through before the organizers let the person race with the "senior drivers" in the main races. It involves taking a competition driving school, passing a physical, then running in special practice sessions and races with all other Novice racers. The emphasis is on safety in these races, rather than out and out speed. Safe passes, watching the turnworker flags, etc are stressed. Local amateur racing frowns on fender to fender contact. So safety and good sportsmanship is stressed. These cars do not have insurance. So any damage to the car is on our dime.

Each area of the country has some form of amateur racing, many with SCCA. Here is our areas description of our Novice training program as an example, it also has a good variety of the types of cars that race in various classes:
http://www.icscc.com/novice.html

Overall at a race weekend in our neck of the woods, there are probably 150 race cars in attendance. They are competing in various classes based on horsepower and level of car development. Obviously all 150 cars don't race at the same time, and certainly open wheeled cars should not be out with closed wheeled cars. So they split up the classes so similar speed cars tend to run together. So lots of the 4-cylinders cars tend to be in a couple of the run groups, medium speed cars in another, and the really fast cars in another group. It is not very safe to put cars of very unequal speed out at the same time. And when I say difference in speed, we are talking mostly stock VW rabbits maybe hitting 100 MPH top speed to tube framed GT cars hitting 170 MPH. The closing speeds are too different. The cornering speeds are also very different.

As for BMWs of the E30 body style, they tend to slot in the medium speed groups. E30s with 4 cylinders are also raced, and they run in the slower group, which would make sense. Most of these cars are at least 7 years old, ( The E30s are now 14+ years old! ) so we don't see many M-cars being raced at our grassroots level. People running those types of cars are better funded and usually running in national series. In our area, we are all running the standard E30 (rather than an E30 M3) because the costs to maintain the car is a lot less. Blowing an M20 engine is a third the cost of grenading an S14 engine from an E30 M3.

cheers,

Lance Richert
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dale



Joined: 22 Aug 1999
Posts: 3087
Location: Seattle, WA USA

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 6:38 pm    Post subject: Racing E30s... Reply with quote

My racecar only has a Tach, Oil Pressure, Water Temp for gauges.

Most of us use the stock aftermarket chip. A Dinan chip, or a Conforti chip, or an E.A.T. chip from Mark D.

The other main engine mods allowed are a header, with the Stahl header being the popular one, an exhaust that is less then 103db in sound emission, and a cold air intake.

The idea for running this stock of a motor, is that if you blow your motor, you can pickup another one in the salvage yard for $700, drop it into the car in a weekend, and be racing again, and be competitive.

The modifications don't get hurt, so they are a one-time purchase.

The transmission is stock, with Redline fluid, the diff is a factory 4.10 LSD with Redline fluid. We keep the drivetrain as stock as possible to keep costs down.

Dale

[ 05-24-2004: Message edited by: dale ]
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Lance Richert



Joined: 12 Feb 2001
Posts: 29
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 7:29 pm    Post subject: Racing E30s... Reply with quote

To continue the thought... the E30 is now old enough, that there are plenty of old cars ready for a second life as a race car. And there are plenty of wrecked E30s (because it does not take much to call one totalled) to pull engines from.

My car was a 160,xxx mile road car before being gutted and turned into a race car. Most of the local E30 race cars put in a solid life as a road car before getting second life as a race car. Go back and look at the images of the orange Jagermeister car. The car is beautiful, and fast! That shell was the most horrific looking thing when they started the project.

We talk about dropping in yarded engines, but in reality these M20 engines have proven to be very robust. (knock on wood). There are a total of around a dozen of these E30s being raced here in Seattle, and the engines just go and go. The weak link seems to be rocker arms, they are sometimes prone to breaking.
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Steve D



Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 102
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:44 am    Post subject: Racing E30s... Reply with quote

guys - I purchased a 1989 325is that I'm setting up for racing. Would anyone have advice on alignment specs you'd be willing to pass on to me? Thanks!
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dale



Joined: 22 Aug 1999
Posts: 3087
Location: Seattle, WA USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:02 pm    Post subject: Racing E30s... Reply with quote

Alignment specs are determined by the car, the tires, the driver, the track.
Buy a pyrometer, drag a friend to the track to act as pit crew, take readings from the tires for temps, and adjust the tires accordingly.

There is no "one best" setup for alignment for any racecar, even if it is the same car.
Different drivers will drive differently, different setups will affect the tire temps, etc.

You have to set up the alignment specs for you and your car.

The major one you'll set is camber.
Castor isn't a big factor.
Toe, set to neutral, 0 or slightly, 1/16" out or 1/16" in.
Toe out will give you better turn in.
Neutral to a bit of toe in will give you less drag down the front straight.

Dale
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Chuck Baader



Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 95
Location: Birmingham, Alabama

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 11:03 am    Post subject: Racing E30s... Reply with quote

These numbers have worked for me the last 3 years. Front: toe--1/16 OUT, RF camber 1.9-2.1 degrees, LF camber 2.2-2.5 degrees, Castor equal both sides aroung 8 degrees.

Rear: Camber 2.3-2.5 both sides, Toe 1/16"-1/8" IN.

I use these numbers with a ride height of 5 3/8" in the front and 5 1/5" in the rear.

For the record, Ground Control makes the best race suspension parts for this chassis. Have bought several times over the years and finally learned.

Stahl header is great but will not give enough ground cleanance at that ride height. Ireland has a good looking shortie that can be combined with a merge collector to get a good power system. good luck to all, Chuck
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Steve D



Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 102
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:36 pm    Post subject: Racing E30s... Reply with quote

Thanks, all, for the advice. Car s/b back in the next couple of days & I'm getting anxious to get 'er to the track!
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dale



Joined: 22 Aug 1999
Posts: 3087
Location: Seattle, WA USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:14 pm    Post subject: Racing E30s... Reply with quote

Chuck,
You are so right about the Stahl header. At my aprox 5" ride height, I've bottomed out way too many times on that header.
I have the new Ireland shortie sitting in the garage just awaiting the time to install it.

Dale
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