Subject: Tools
From: sfisher@abingdon.sgi.com (Scott Fisher)
Date: 5 Sep 89 23:53:38 GMT

In article <7014@sdcsvax.UCSD.Edu> barber@beowulf.UCSD.EDU (Terri Barber) writes: >In article <446@odin.SGI.COM> sfisher@abingdon.sgi.com (Scott Fisher) writes:
>>That's the spirit! Now before you go another hundred miles, get the
>>following:
>> - a Haynes manual for your car
>> - one of those $3.99/40-piece metric-and-standard socket sets
>> - a 99-cent bag of screwdrivers
>> - a four-pound hand drilling hammer (Sears Craftsman, $16, worth it)
>> - a case of Lava soap
>>
>>Immediately perform the "recommended maintenance" in the front of
>>the book, not so much because there's something wrong with the
>
>if you get past chapter one ("recommended maintenance") dump your 99
>cent bag of screwdrivers and your $3.99/40-piece metric-and-standard
>socket set. Bent screwdrivers, stripped screw heads, rounded
>nuts/bolts, cracked sockets and/or ratchets, and skinned hands are not
>fun.

Well, don't throw them away -- there are always advantages to having tools that are so crappy that you don't have to worry about wrecking them. It is always useful, for instance, to have a set of screwdrivers that you don't mind punching through an oil filter, or sharpening into a chisel, or cutting off the back part of the handle so that it fits into the space between the bottom of the carbs and the top of the distributor when you need to adjust the points. (Remember when cars had points and houses had Hall effects?)

The real point, of course, is that good tools are essential, and more than worth their price. (See the comment about the hammer up there -- a good hammer with a large head and a short handle is essential for working on old cars with potentially rusty nut/bolt combos.)

But cheap tools have their place. My actual suggestion:

After that, you can get as much stuff as you have money or inclination to get. And there isn't much that is cooler than a red toolbox with wheels to put it all in...

--
"But what can you say when you discover that your definition of sane and insane are the opposite of the world's definitions?" "Well, Bob, I'd say it's time for breakfast." sfisher@abingdon.wpd.sgi.com Scott Fisher, Mountain View, California


From: cbrooks@ms.uky.edu (Clayton Brooks)
Date: 13 Sep 89 00:07:04 GMT

I have found Stanley "professional grade" (the ones with the 3-sided black handles) screwdrivers to be about the best in the business.

Or, at least, second to Snap-On.

Better yet, is the fact that you can buy them in certain discount department stores at cheapo-tool prices.

CTB --

Signature censored. GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!


From: boubez@caip.rutgers.edu (Toufic Boubez)
Date: 12 Sep 89 20:36:21 GMT

(Carl Scholz) writes:

>So where can one find Snap-On, and Mac tools? I have seen some S&K tools
>in auto parts stores (I think), and I have seen Snap-On and Mac tools
>trucks on the road and at service stations, etc., but never in a retail
>situation.

I don't know if it's similar in the U.S., but in Montreal, the only way to buy Snap-On tools is through a traveling salesman. You go to your favourite mechanic and ask him when does the Snap-On truck come by (usually on a monthly or weekly basis, depending on the size of the establishment) and then you show up at the appropriate time.

>
>.carl

toufic

                Toufic Boubez
                boubez@caip.rutgers.edu
                boubez@bass.rutgers.edu

From: wd4oqc@kd4nc.UUCP (John DeArmond)
Date: 12 Sep 89 06:14:24 GMT

welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty) writes:

>does anyone have any opinions on the relative quality of
>the different brands of `better quality' tools, like mac tools,
>S&K, Snap-On, and Craftsman? i've never been real happy with
>Craftsman's small pliers, and have been having trouble with the
>mechanisms in their ratchets lately. is that $60 1/2" Snap-On
>ratchet handle really worth it (only $50 in industrial finish)?

NO! it is not. There are just so many ways of alloying steel and forging it into tools. Beyond the quality of the metal, which is excellent in all name-brand tools, the shape and finish are the major issues.

I personally dislike the shiny finishe on Snap-on and Mac tools. My favorite tools are S&K, though I have some Craftsman tools in the box. (Try to find a Snap-on man on a Sunday afternoon after you have broken that ratchet with a 6' cheater :-) The one exception I've made is that I've bought a set of Snap-on "flank-drive" sockets. These sockets, which I believe are patented, have specially machined flats designed to apply the torque away from the corner of the nut. This avoids bugering up the edges and/or breaking the chrome plating on things like custom lug nuts.

I have a friend who is in the Mac tool business. I've had the opportunity to observe the business up close. My observations have confirmed my previous suspicions that the whole operation is a rip-off, both for the dealer and the customer.

A Snap-On or Mac tool dealer is an independent dealer. In order to get a franchise, he has to come up with something like $100,000 in fees and such. Then he has to buy a $40,000 van and stock it with something like $50,000 worth of tools. He then has to buy the tools at a discount from list (and not too good a discount at that). He is given a protected territory which ensures low competition. Plus, he has to pay into certain promotional programs, buy a computer and expensive software. It is no wonder that a $12 ratchet costs $60 bux off the truck. You do get the convenience of front doorservice but at what a price.

Mac teaches the salesmen tricks that I consider deceptive, especially considering that the average garage mechanic is not Einstein. A favorite trick of my friend is to start a "my box is bigger than your box" war in a shop. Pretty soon, he has sold one or more $4000 roll-around boxes just so one mechanic or the other can brag that he has the biggest box. When I used to be a service manager at a motorcycle shop, I used to go to the Snap-On truck and ride herd on my troups. I stopped that stuff quickly but that is the exception rather than the rule.

For me personally, I have not found any reason to go outside S&K and Craftsman. My tools have survived over 6 years on the motorcycle race circuit, many years in a bike shop and several years in a car garage. About the only things I replace are the ones that are stolen.

John

--
John De Armond, WD4OQC | Manual? ... What manual ?!? Radiation Systems, Inc. Marietta, GA | This is Unix, My son, You ...!gatech!kd4nc!wd4oqc **I am the NRA** | just GOTTA Know!!!


From: welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty)
Date: 12 Sep 89 21:05:51 GMT

In article <14590@haddock.ima.isc.com>, Carl Scholz writes: *So where can one find Snap-On, and Mac tools? I have seen some S&K tools *in auto parts stores (I think), and I have seen Snap-On and Mac tools *trucks on the road and at service stations, etc., but never in a retail *situation.

it probably varies from location to location, but our local Snap-On organization is set up to sell tools over the counter from their warehouse, which is how i buy them. they are also equipped to give out Snap-On credit accounts (which, given their prices, may be necessary sometimes.)

i don't really know about S&K and Mac; i sometimes see S&K tools for sale in odd places, though (like at the swap meet at the vintage races at lime rock a week or so ago.)

Snap-On appears to cost anywhere from 50% more to 3 or 4 times as much, depending on the tool. they have a lifetime warranty as well, but rarely have to honor it because their tools almost never break (Snap-On people tend to look very bemused if you show them a broken Snap-On tool.) as at sears, if you give them the broken tool, they give you a new equivalent. i found the people at the local Snap-On warehouse very helpful in finding out what tool i need; since there is no retail display you basically go through the catalogue and the person working the counter fetches things from the shelves and shows them to you.

i haven't convinced myself that the Snap-On tools are really worth the premium just yet, but if my 1/2" Craftsman ratchet jams up one more time, i might just change my mind. also, some people really like Snap-On calendars, but wives and girlfriends are rarely impressed.

richard
--
richard welty 518-387-6346, GE R&D, K1-5C39, Niskayuna, New York

..!crdgw1!lewis.crd.ge.com!welty            welty@lewis.crd.ge.com
       Officer:  Do you know how fast you were going?
       Driver:   No.  The speedometer only goes up to 85

From: BHB3@PSUVM.BITNET
Date: 12 Sep 89 14:40:14 GMT

All of the Ford sevice garages(company not necessary dealer) use Snap-On. That may be just for the reason of a good bulk deal. My Dad's Craftsman stuff has suffered through pretty heavy use and hasn't broken a single Craftsman tool


From: welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty)
Date: 12 Sep 89 22:32:38 GMT

In article <2873@kd4nc.UUCP>, John DeArmond writes:

*welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty) writes:

*NO! it is not. There are just so many ways of alloying steel and *forging it into tools. Beyond the quality of the metal, which is excellent *in all name-brand tools, the shape and finish are the major issues.

*I personally dislike the shiny finish on Snap-on and Mac tools. My *favorite tools are S&K, though I have some Craftsman tools in the box.

well, my specific complaints about craftsman tools were given above; to recap:

  1. ratchet mechanisms in some of the craftsman tools seem rather

    flakey -- my 1/2" handle is jamming on me, and the 3/8" handles were giving problems to an ex-girlfriend of mine. does Snap-On, S&K, or Mac make a ratchet that doesn't jam up?

  2. i know for a fact that the small pliers and wire cutters available

    from Snap-On are nicer than those from Craftsman; are S&K's small pliers better than Craftsman and cheaper than Snap-On? is there some other good source for such tools?

these do look rather nice; but for the moment my sets of Craftsman sockets are doing the job. if i break any, though, i'll probably buy Snap-On.

interesting, then that they charge the same across the counter at the warehouse; that way they get to make all the money.

*For me personally, I have not found any reason to go outside S&K and Crafts- *man. My tools have survived over 6 years on the motorcycle race circuit, *many years in a bike shop and several years in a car garage. About the only *things I replace are the ones that are stolen.

it rather sounds like S&K may be the route to go.

richard
--
richard welty 518-387-6346, GE R&D, K1-5C39, Niskayuna, New York

..!crdgw1!lewis.crd.ge.com!welty            welty@lewis.crd.ge.com
       Officer:  Do you know how fast you were going?
       Driver:   No.  The speedometer only goes up to 85

From: paul@Solbourne.COM (Paul Orland)
Date: 13 Sep 89 19:41:58 GMT

>(Carl Scholz) writes:
>
>So where can one find Snap-On, and Mac tools? I have seen some S&K tools
>in auto parts stores (I think), and I have seen Snap-On and Mac tools
>trucks on the road and at service stations, etc., but never in a retail
>situation.

Snap-On makes some very high quality tools, with a lifetime garantee for almost all hand tools (some instruments, power tools are excluded). Snap-On tools are distrubuted by corporate warehouses and local salesman that work privately. You can obtain a catalog and distributor information by calling Snap-On World HQ at 414/656-5200. Don't be suprised by Snap-On's prices. They are quite high.

I imagine a small amount of telephone research would also turn up numbers for Mac and Matco tools, both of which are also distributed like the Snap-On line.

There are also lines like Proto, S&K, etc. are available from retail stores like auto part stores.

Sears Craftsman are good tools for a reasonable price and a great warranty, I personally like my Snap-On tools best.

In general, if you are looking for good tools, make sure they are:

  1. Forged.
  2. Fit well in your hand and operate smoothly.
  3. Have a good warranty (most good tools are lifetime). --
    Paul Orland 303/678-4351 paul@Solbourne.COM

From: mikes@tellab5.tellabs.CHI.IL.US (Mike Schwartz)
Date: 13 Sep 89 17:55:06 GMT

In article <2830631558@lewis.crd.ge.com> welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty) writes: >these do look rather nice; but for the moment my sets of Craftsman
>sockets are doing the job. if i break any, though, i'll probably
>buy Snap-On.

Why? Just go to Sears and get your free replacement. --


Mike Schwartz     **   
Tellabs, Inc.     **    "This new learning amazes me!"
Lisle, IL         **

I'm not sure whose opinions these are.
From: sharp@hpsharp.HP.COM (Darrin Sharp)
Date: 13 Sep 89 14:39:07 GMT
        The only way I know of to get Snap-On tools is to
        go through their traveling sales reps. To find the
        one on my area, I looked in the Yellow Pages of
        the closest big city (Denver). They had a number
        for Snap-On under "Tools". The people in Denver
        gave me the name of the rep in my area. I called
        him up (on his mobile phone), and arranged to meet
        him at one of his regular stops (an auto repair
        place in my town).

        $18 for a T55 torx socket, but I couldn't find one
        that big anywhere else. It better last forever.

        Darrin Sharp

From: whs70@pyuxe.UUCP (W. H. Sohl)
Date: 12 Sep 89 19:50:05 GMT

There's also alot to be said for the imported tools that can now be found for very cheap prices. While I wouldn't build a business on them, they do present an excellent way to obtain many unique tools that might otherwise be too expensive to have on hand because they are so infrequently used.

The imported tools also make it very inexpensive to keep a set of ratchets and screwdrivers in the trunk of each car you might own.

Bill Sohl


From: welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty)
Date: 14 Sep 89 18:02:34 GMT

In article <1578@tellab5.tellabs.CHI.IL.US>, Mike Schwartz writes: *In article <2830631558@lewis.crd.ge.com> welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty) writes: *>these do look rather nice; but for the moment my sets of Craftsman *>sockets are doing the job. if i break any, though, i'll probably *>buy Snap-On.
*
*Why? Just go to Sears and get your free replacement.

  1. as John pointed out, the Snap-On sockets have a modified

    shape called ``Flank Drive'' designed to reduce rounding of nuts and bolts

  2. if i'm using a tool properly, and it breaks, i have to

    consider the possibility that the tool wasn't made correctly. i'd go get the free replacement, sure, but i'd always wonder if it would break at some inopportune moment when aquiring the replacement might not be so easy.

richard
--
richard welty 518-387-6346, GE R&D, K1-5C39, Niskayuna, New York

..!crdgw1!lewis.crd.ge.com!welty            welty@lewis.crd.ge.com
       Officer:  Do you know how fast you were going?
       Driver:   No.  The speedometer only goes up to 85

From: gant@concave.uucp (Alan Gant)
Date: 14 Sep 89 17:55:57 GMT

shoot, i just have one set of good tools, sears craftsman. with the unconditional replacement guarantee, use the craftsman screwdriver to pry, punch, or scrape, and get it replaced if it gets damaged. i've never had a problem doing this.

                        Alan Gant, CONVEX Computer Corporation
                        gant@convex.COM

From: rjs@hpfcdc.HP.COM (Bob Schneider)
Date: 13 Sep 89 18:45:16 GMT

welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty) writes:

>does anyone have any opinions on the relative quality of
>the different brands of `better quality' tools, like mac tools,
>S&K, Snap-On, and Craftsman? i've never been real happy with
>Craftsman's small pliers, and have been having trouble with the
>mechanisms in their ratchets lately. is that $60 1/2" Snap-On
>ratchet handle really worth it (only $50 in industrial finish)?

        I've tended to use Craftsman tools quite a lot myself. I have had
        the opportunity to use Snap-On's while working at a garage a
        while back. The biggest complaint I have with Craftsman is that 
        their open end wrenchs seem to stretch more than the Snap-On wrenchs. 
        I could never understand why I had so much trouble with open end
        wrenchs until I used Snap-On's and realized that the problem
        wasn't me after all. Also, I have never broken a Snap-On socket while
        I have broken about 1/2 a dozen Craftsman sockets over the years
        (even under appripriate usage... read: no extenders/cheaters).

        Has anybody ever had any luck getting Sears to replace stretched
        wrenchs? I never had. I could never get the sales droid to
        understand that even though the tool wasn't broken, it was
        equally worthless because its size wasn't true anymore.

Bob Schneider     rjs%hpfcla@hplabs.HP.COM

From: akers@oliven.olivetti.com (Rob Akers)
Date: 15 Sep 89 18:55:21 GMT

In article <2873@kd4nc.UUCP>, wd4oqc@kd4nc.UUCP (John DeArmond) writes:

...
> (Try to find a Snap-on man on a Sunday afternoon after you have broken
> that ratchet with a 6' cheater :-) The one exception I've made is that
...

I had this experience last month while I was changing the struts on my car. After breaking the first ratchet, I dug out a $5.99 Taiwan ratchet and tried again. Well the ratchet didn't break, but the handle started to bend so I stopped. It was on a Sunday, and not having any other transportation I rode a bicycle to the hardware store and picked up an S&K flex handle. It worked fine with the cheater and seemed to be pretty well made.

I came to the conclusion that its not a good idea to use a cheater with a ratchet, especially when you really have to wail on it to loosen the bolt. As I get older, I find myself using cheaters more frequently than I used to :). Of course if you break the tool and it has a lifetime guarantee you can get a new one, but standing around a dissassembled car on Sunday afternoon with a broken tool is no fun.

I used to have Craftsman tools, but they got stolen and now I have a mixture of some decent (Craftsman, S&K) and some cheap stuff. I'll eventually replace the other stuff, probably with Craftsman.


From: welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty)
Date: 15 Sep 89 20:29:35 GMT

In article <48050@oliveb.olivetti.com>, Rob Akers writes: *I came to the conclusion that its not a good idea to use a cheater with *a ratchet, especially when you really have to wail on it to loosen the *bolt.

really. you should use cheaters on breaker bars, not ratchets.

funny how that works.

richard
--
richard welty 518-387-6346, GE R&D, K1-5C39, Niskayuna, New York ..!crdgw1!lewis.crd.ge.com!welty welty@lewis.crd.ge.com


From: mikes@tellab5.tellabs.CHI.IL.US (Mike Schwartz)
Date: 16 Sep 89 14:59:29 GMT

In article <48050@oliveb.olivetti.com> akers@oliven.olivetti.com (Rob Akers) writes: >In article <2873@kd4nc.UUCP>, wd4oqc@kd4nc.UUCP (John DeArmond) writes:
>> (Try to find a Snap-on man on a Sunday afternoon after you have broken
>> that ratchet with a 6' cheater :-) The one exception I've made is that
>I had this experience last month while I was changing the struts on my
>car. After breaking the first ratchet, I dug out a $5.99 Taiwan ratchet
>and tried again. Well the ratchet didn't break, but the handle started to
>bend so I stopped. It was on a Sunday, and not having any other transportation
>I rode a bicycle to the hardware store and picked up an S&K flex handle. It
>worked fine with the cheater and seemed to be pretty well made.

I remember taking the lug nuts off of a friend's '73 Satellite (he bought it for $50 and sold it 2 years and 50k miles later for $1000 - I guess 318 2bbl appreciates better than a Hemi :) ) using a Craftsman ratchet, socket and a 7' length of 2" exhaust pipe (the cheater bar). With one 150 lb guy putting all his weight of the pipe, we were able to get the nuts off the lugs-without breaking the ratchet (yes, we did all 20 this way). That ratchet is going strong to this day. We have broken innumberable cheap tools by abusing them the way a Craftsman can be abused. I am at the point where if I am about to use a tool improperly, I purposely select a Craftsman because I know that if it does break, the replacement costs nothing. There is no substitute for good high quality tools (except, of course, better higher quality tools). --


Mike Schwartz     **   
Tellabs, Inc.     **    "This new learning amazes me!"
Lisle, IL         **

I'm not sure whose opinions these are.
From: evil@arcturus.UUCP (Wade Guthrie)
Date: 15 Sep 89 18:46:14 GMT

boubez@caip.rutgers.edu (Toufic Boubez) writes:

>I don't know if it's similar in the U.S., but in Montreal, the only way to
>buy Snap-On tools is through a traveling salesman.

So why would one buy Snap-On when Craftsman is cheaper and also has a lifetime warantee? I can understand a mechanic doing it if Snap-on need to be replaced less often, but why a lonely little arm-chair mechanic like me?

Wade Guthrie
evil@arcturus.UUCP
Rockwell International
Anaheim, CA

(Rockwell doesn't necessarily believe / stand by what I'm saying; how could they when *I* don't even know what I'm talking about???)


From: wd4oqc@kd4nc.UUCP (John DeArmond)
Date: 16 Sep 89 04:46:10 GMT

welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty) writes:

>2) i know for a fact that the small pliers and wire cutters available
> from Snap-On are nicer than those from Craftsman; are S&K's small
> pliers better than Craftsman and cheaper than Snap-On? is there
> some other good source for such tools?

Let me add one comment to my previous posting. I've had a fairly complete set of Snap-on electronic hand tools from my first-ever job where my employer bought my tools (nice, eh?). These tools are almost 20 years old and are *worn out*. I consider this performance unacceptable, especially since they've received little use in the last 5 to 10 years or so.

Some of the nicest "electronics" tools I've found are from Xelite. "Electronics" describes tools up through sizes commonly used for car work. Anyone interested in precision tools would do well to look at Xelite.

John

--
John De Armond, WD4OQC | Manual? ... What manual ?!? Radiation Systems, Inc. Marietta, GA | This is Unix, My son, You ...!gatech!kd4nc!wd4oqc **I am the NRA** | just GOTTA Know!!!


From: welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty)
Date: 18 Sep 89 21:59:55 GMT
References: <Sep.12.16.36.19.1989.27907@caip.rutgers.edu> <6042@arcturus>
Sender: news@crdgw1.crd.ge.com
Reply-To: welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty)
Followup-To: rec.autos
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Lines: 31

In article <6042@arcturus>, Wade Guthrie writes: *boubez@caip.rutgers.edu (Toufic Boubez) writes: *>I don't know if it's similar in the U.S., but in Montreal, the only way to *>buy Snap-On tools is through a traveling salesman.

*So why would one buy Snap-On when Craftsman is cheaper and also has a *lifetime warantee? I can understand a mechanic doing it if Snap-on need *to be replaced less often, but why a lonely little arm-chair mechanic like *me?

reasons to buy Snap-On instead of Craftsman:

  1. status
  2. tool not available from Craftsman
  3. Snap-On tool of superior quality design/construction to Craftsman

    (e.g., ``Flank Drive'' sockets)

reasons not to buy Snap-On instead of Craftsman:

  1. Snap-On is overpriced
  2. Sears has better hours and more locations

richard
--
richard welty 518-387-6346, GE R&D, K1-5C39, Niskayuna, New York

..!crdgw1!lewis.crd.ge.com!welty            welty@lewis.crd.ge.com
       Officer:  Do you know how fast you were going?
       Driver:   No.  The speedometer only goes up to 85

From: sukenick@ccnysci.UUCP (SYG)
Date: 18 Sep 89 13:59:45 GMT
>       wrenchs? I never had. I could never get the sales droid to
> understand that even though the tool wasn't broken, it was > equally worthless because its size wasn't true anymore.

I thought that Sears says that they will replace their tools if they fail to satisfy (or some such rot), not only if they break. Maybe point out the wording on oneof the ads to the 'droid'


From: seibel@cgl.ucsf.edu (George Seibel)
Date: 19 Sep 89 11:54:26 GMT

In article <6042@arcturus> evil@arcturus.UUCP (Wade Guthrie) writes: >boubez@caip.rutgers.edu (Toufic Boubez) writes:

>>I don't know if it's similar in the U.S., but in Montreal, the only way to
>>buy Snap-On tools is through a traveling salesman.

>So why would one buy Snap-On when Craftsman is cheaper and also has a
>lifetime warantee? I can understand a mechanic doing it if Snap-on need
>to be replaced less often, but why a lonely little arm-chair mechanic like
>me?

It's the way they feel. Kind of hard to explain.. balance, flexibility, finish.. Yeah, I know they cost a fortune. So does a really nice car. Considering shop rates these days (at least here in SF), you can pay for a few Snap-On wrenches pretty quick. On the other hand, there are a lot of high quality tools that are not so expensive, and are also very nice, eg S-K. I used to like Craftsman, but lately have not been so impressed with their price/performance. I don't like the idea of having to pay for all the yahoos who put 18 foot cheaters on their ratchet wrenches to do a job that called for a torch.

George Seibel, UCSF


From: dpd00609@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Date: 18 Sep 89 17:08:00 GMT

Wade Guthrie writes...

> So why would one buy Snap-On when Craftsman is cheaper and also has a
> lifetime warantee? I can understand a mechanic doing it if Snap-on need
> to be replaced less often, but why a lonely little arm-chair mechanic like
> me?

Most of my tools are Craftsman because they *usually* represent a great value. But try finding a 24" Craftsman breaker bar, or the huge metric socket for a Rabbit axle nut. Not only was I able to get a longer breaker bar from Snap-On but it was also better designed (fit better in my hand, etc.). But it was expensive!!!

I have also had a couple experiences where a Proto wrench would easily remove a nut from a motorcycle, but my Craftsman wrench just wanted to tear the nut apart as its tolerances were not as tight as the Proto's.

David Doudna "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be air-cooled." dpd00609@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu


From: abbott@ms.uky.edu (Joel Abbott)
Date: 20 Sep 89 01:39:48 GMT

dpd00609@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes:

>Wade Guthrie writes...
>But try finding a 24" Craftsman breaker bar, or the huge metric socket for
>a Rabbit axle nut.

My friend had to take the hub nut off his VW bus and he found the 36 mm (?) socket at Sears. Maybe they don't have them everywhere, but I have seen a fairly comprehensive set of large sockets at Sears, but now that you mention it, they don't even make a 23 mm socket that I needed to drain the manual tranny fluid in my Mazda 323. At least that is what the salesslime said.

--
Joel Abbott -> abbott@ms.uky.edu, abbott@ukma.bitnet, uunet!ukma!abbott "There's a thin line between clever and stupid." -- Movie _This is Spinal Tap_


From: bruce@nmsu.edu (Bruce Rowen)
Date: 20 Sep 89 01:54:21 GMT
nn
I just have to put in my $.02 worth!

Tools form Snap-On are better than the Crafsman equivilent. The differences are small however. Snap-On wrenches are a better grade of steel and they hold their "edge" forever. They also are smaller around the head and shank which can make the difference when trying to get at a remote bolthead. BUT is this worth the extra $$$$, hassel of finding a Snap-On man when you need him??? For some tools that I use every day I have Snap-On, the rest-of-the-best are all Craftsman, For those seldom used or "impossible to break" 2" box wrenches I get the ultra cheap import stuff. It's all a matter of how they feel in your hand and if you can stand another "knuckel buster" --
-Bruce

"Just half a turn and there's your worm!"

-Bob Bet Bait Box


From: chrisb@escargot.UUCP (Chris Bradley)
Date: 20 Sep 89 05:58:11 GMT
>Reasons to buy Snap-on instead of Crafstman
>
>1) status

Possbily, but not in my crowd.

>2) tool not available from Craftsman

Again, I'm not sure of this one, as I haven't run into any tools that I haven't been able to buy from either company.

>3) Snap-On tool of superior quality design/construction to Craftsman
> (e.g., ``Flank Drive'' sockets)

I agree. Keeps things from slipping and also allows gripping stripped bolts.

>reasons not to buy Snap-On instead of Craftsman:
>
>1) Snap-On is overpriced

Slightly, but if you never have to take it back to your local Snap-on truck, that's worth it right there.

>2) Sears has better hours and more locations

Also you neglect to mention that Craftsman tools break easier and more often than Snap-ons do. I have NEVER had to take a Snap-on back to the dealer for a replacement. I have broken countless Craftsman tools, including their deep well sockets and several U-joints and even a ratchet. And no, I wasn't using the tools "improperly".

For the average joe who might change batteries, change alternators, or whatever "small" project he or she might do, the Craftsman breed is probably best. For the type of people, like me, who mess with cars all the time and get into heavy work (I.E., engine/transmission), there isn't any substitute for Snap-ons. I believe that the extra price is worth it considering I'm not inconvenienced by having to take the part back to where I bought it. :-)

-->Chris

UUCP: ..tektronix!tessi!escargot!chrisb     "I didn't like the Mercury Sable,
Phone: (503) 644-3585 (Call anytime!)       So I bought a Ford Taurus instead!"

From: welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty)
Date: 20 Sep 89 17:51:02 GMT

In article <12721@s.ms.uky.edu>, Joel Abbott writes: *My friend had to take the hub nut off his VW bus and he found the *36 mm (?) socket at Sears. Maybe they don't have them everywhere, but *I have seen a fairly comprehensive set of large sockets at Sears, *but now that you mention it, they don't even make a 23 mm socket *that I needed to drain the manual tranny fluid in my Mazda 323. *At least that is what the salesslime said.

sears has a lot of tools that are not normally stocked even in a large store. check the catalogue department of your sears before assuming that stuff isn't available; i've purchased quite a lot of tools that way, like the metric deep socket i needed to get the old O2 sensor out of the exhaust manifold of my Saab turbo.

definitely, if the Mazda drain plug needs a normal 23mm socket, then Sears makes it -- Sears has the 27mm socket i need for the drain plug in my v-6 alfa.

richard
--
richard welty 518-387-6346, GE R&D, K1-5C39, Niskayuna, New York ..!crdgw1!lewis.crd.ge.com!welty welty@lewis.crd.ge.com


From: welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty)
Date: 1 Dec 89 15:19:54 EST

some of you may recall the extended, er, discussion that we had a while back on quality tools; the concensus being that craftsman quality was slipping and that snap-on tools are quite good, but rather overpriced.

well, i've found a solution to the dilemma -- there's a good used tool store in schenectady, new york, and i just last night found a very nice ratcheting crimping tool for electrical connectors and a unused snap-on torque wrench for pretty good prices.

used snap-on tools seem to go for 1/2 list price; the unused torque wrench for 1/3 off list. other quality tools (S&K, Mac, etc.) seem to fall in a similar pattern. turnover in such a place seems pretty fast, especially for items like sockets and wrenches, so repeat visits are in order.

try looking in the tool section (or Tools-Used section) of the yellow pages of your phone book for such a place, or maybe in hardware. i'm glad i visited the one we have here (for local residents, it's named _The Tool Shed_, and is in the yellow pages. it's physically located a couple of blocks from the intersection of State St. and McClellan in Schenectady, on Furman. dibs on any 1/2 inch snap-on ratchets.)

richard
--
richard welty 518-387-6346, GE R&D, K1-5C39, Niskayuna, New York

...!crdgw1!lewis.crd.ge.com!welty            welty@lewis.crd.ge.com
     ``i've got a girlfriend with bows in her hair,
         and nothing is better than that'' -- David Byrne