The Rangie, Disco and Defender Owner mailing list Daily Digest

Tired of Too Much E-mail ? -- Go Wired ! read this digest daily at

http://www.land-rover.team.net/RRO/today.html

The WWW pages for the list (including subscribe/unsubscribe forms) start at:

http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/lro-info.html (shadow) http://www2.Land-Rover.Team.Net/lro-info.html

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 10:21:23 -0500
From: Bill Yerazunis <wsy_at_merl.com>
Subject: Re: waterproofing the ECU

Putting the ECU in a waterproof box is not as simple as it sounds.

Reason: the ECU draws a fair amount of power- and generates a fair amount of heat! If you can't get rid of the heat, you get a meltdown.

A pelican box (foamed lexan) is particularly bad in this regard- the box is a pretty good insulator.

When I have seen similar issues in industry, the usual response is to use an aluminium box, with a gasketed lid, PLUS heatsink fins on both inside and outside, and fans on the inside to blow air around within the box.

You could get 90% of a fully waterproof installation by a "diving bell" configuration- cut a detergent bottle into a loose-fitting cover that's open on the bottom. Slide it over the ECU, opening down; the ECU will now stay high and dry in it's bubble of air as long as you don't tip too far. (if you roll during a water crossing, you have MUCH BIGGER problems than a drowned ECU). Leave plenty of space around the ECU for cooling and a good long "skirt" below the ECU to hold the bubble of air.

We did something very similar to this for a 1.4 GHz reciever on top of a 80-foot tower on a hilltop near Boston. The reciever's been out in the weather for two years now and hasn't had any moisture problems, even during hurricanes. :-)

-Crash

Bill Yerazunis wrote:

> Putting the ECU in a waterproof box is not as simple as it sounds.
> Reason: the ECU draws a fair amount of power- and generates a fair
> amount of heat! If you can't get rid of the heat, you get a
> meltdown.
> A pelican box (foamed lexan) is particularly bad in this regard- the
> box is a pretty good insulator.

That is why I said that I would only close the lid when fording :")

> When I have seen similar issues in industry, the usual response is to
> use an aluminium box, with a gasketed lid, PLUS heatsink fins on
> both inside and outside, and fans on the inside to blow air around
> within the box.
> You could get 90% of a fully waterproof installation by a "diving
> bell" configuration- cut a detergent bottle into a loose-fitting

[ truncated by list-digester (was 24 lines)] > problems, even during hurricanes. :-)
> -Crash

Barnett ,
I thought about this, seems like a really good idea. I would assume if it worked Chris Laws would be the man. But what I'm doing to the hard to for now is taking conventional foam padded head liner and spray-menting it to the fiberglass, it will really dampen the reverb and echo from the interior, and silence the exterior noise also. It also gives it a nice finished look also ( the fiberglass is not the most consistent material to finish) It takes 3 rolls of the over the counter stuff from Pep Boys or you could probably go to a auto top/ seat interior (possibly Chris Laws) place to get uncut larger pieces to make installation more professional (more costly) So far it looks great , I'm just up in the air about weather I should Rhino line it before I put the top on it or just wait until next season when I remove the top again to have it Rhino lined ??? Chris "V"

The Discovery comes with a loop mounted to the front frame rail, while not as sturdy as a 3/4" shackle, it's good enough. Like anything, I suppose you could break it if you really wanted to. I've been "snatched" by it a couple of times. Two different times by a Jeep which would have been entertaining had I not been the one stuck. Since the Disco outweighs a Jeep by 50% or more, the Jeep would get a head of steam up, the strap would go tight and the jeep would jerk against the strap and then bounce back. The Disco, of course, didn't move much.

I use a 2" strap, which I'd consider the bare minimum. Also, I'd be VERY careful towing with a chain in that they don't flex like a strap. You can't (or shouldn't) jerk with a chain, as it's likely to pull things off or break them (e.g. the recovery point(s)). You can PULL with one if you first and slowly take up the slack. You lose alot of pulling power compared to the strap, but you don't always need that either. Bob W. '95 Disco (been on both ends of the tow rope)

> Petrol engines aren't quite as bad, especially now that they run on =
unleaded
> fuel.

Did you realise that a large proportion of unleaded petrol is made of = the lower aromatic hydrocarbons, such as benzene. This is adsorbed = directly through the skin, is the cause of numerous cancers, is directly = toxic, and here in the UK is very difficult to obtain, unless you buy = unleaded petrol?

Rob Smith

Mines the blue 110

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:47:39 -0800 (PST) From: gpool_at_pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: re: front recovery point question

Rob Smith <rob_at_archenland.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On the front of my 110 I have replaced the tie-downs with 'Jate' rings. [snip]

I think JATE rings are a great solution. The JATE ring hangs down from the frame, like a stirrup, similar to a shackle with the pin passing through the chassis frame. I saw them on the back of a friend's Discovery in the U.K. Now, if I only knew where to get them as I've yet to see a source in the U.S. Has anyone in the U.S. seen these (or for that matter bridal ropes for interconnecting them or kinetic recovery [KERR} ropes) for sale in our market?

BTW, I've yet to hear from anyone what JATE stands for (I think it's an acronym, I'm guessing military).

Cheers,

Granny

Rovers North -- 'Military Recovery Loops' (or something like that). They ain't cheap, though. Got a pair on my D90. AFAIK, they only fit the front; the fuel tank and protection plate interfere in the rear.

: I think JATE rings are a great solution. The JATE ring hangs down from the : frame, like a stirrup, similar to a shackle with the pin passing through the : chassis frame. I saw them on the back of a friend's Discovery in the U.K. : Now, if I only knew where to get them as I've yet to see a source in the : U.S. Has anyone in the U.S. seen these (or for that matter bridal ropes : for interconnecting them or kinetic recovery [KERR} ropes) for sale in our : market?

--
Jeff Gauvin
'94 D90

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:59:03 -0500
From: Lee Levitt <wheelman_at_shore.net>
Subject: re: front recovery point question

At 10:34 PM 11/23/97 -0000, Rob Smith wrote: >On the front of my 110 I have replaced the tie-downs with 'Jate' rings.
On the 110, and I think the RR, this was a very simple task: The bolt holding the tie-down to the chassis frame is replaced by a longs one which passes through the both legs of the jate ring, which sandwich the chassis leg. By using two jate rings and a rope bridal between them the recovery pull is applied more or less equally to both legs of the frame, so reducing the possibility of frame distortion during violent recoveries.

On my Rangie, the front tie downs are brazed on, so I can't replace them (easily). The bull bars are attached via long carriage bolts through the frame...guess I could use the lower mounting point...

Where does one find JATE rings?

Lee

> In LRO magazine they tested a Sony Car Discman a few years ago. It =
was

> basically a high spec Discman with a connecting cassette shaped =
adapter

> which slotted into the regular head unit. This thing did not skip =
even
> on Welsh mountain tracks in a 90ht,

Goodmans market a funny arm thing, that effectively insulates a Discman = from the vehicle's erratic motion. It comes with a collection of = adapter plugs to supply power to the player, and a cassette shaped thing = to plug into your cassette player. It is cheaper than the Sony one, and = I think works as well, at least until the fag lighter plug falls out!

Rob Smith

Mines the blue 110

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:22:43 -0700 (MST) From: James Howard <jdh_at_sextans.lowell.edu> Subject: RR review

http://www.press.co.nz/47/motoring.htm

has an review of the RR 4.6.

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:41:13 -0500
From: Steven Maietta <smaiet01_at_CATS.VILL.EDU> Subject: re: front recovery point question

And it was written.....
>On the front of my 110 I have replaced the tie-downs with 'Jate' rings.
On the 110, and
Blah Blah Blah Blah....
possibility of frame distortion during violent recoveries.

>It took longer to type this in than do the job!
>Rob Smith
>Mines the blue 110

What are "jate rings" ? I thought I knew alot of useless info about hardware, but what are jate rings?

Steve M
Red 94 d90 #791

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:57:25 -0500
From: Steven Maietta <smaiet01_at_CATS.VILL.EDU> Subject: Wading plugs

So does everybody here crawl under their vehicle and screw these things in before every possibly deep wade? I once "waded" pretty deep for a while and a few days later it dropped below freezing for a few days. I had starter trouble shortly after. Also, recently My 90 went into the shop to get the zippers fixed on the soft top, and to look into a clunk occurring when I shifted. I remember reading something about the mainshaft's splines having problems? Or something like that. Anyway when I got it back it had a whole new tranny and transfercase (replaced under warranty, I had 44,000 miles on) put in. Now reverse is down and to the right instead of up left :( On the papers I got back they said that the transfer case gears were "twisted". How the heck did this happen? I haven't done anything that led me to believe that I messed up my T.C. I thought that the mainshaft ws a common problem and that they would replace a few parts. But I got a whole tranny. (I'm not complaining) Any thoughts, info, stories, comments, etc..... Steve M
red '94 D90 #791
P.S. I got directions from Yahoo's map service which were totally wrong and got me to the Blue Comet Diner in Hazleton two hours late. I missed the trip this sunday. Thanks Yahoo!!!

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:17:21 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn <brabyn_at_skivs.ski.org> Subject: Re: Range Rover MkIIs

On Sun, 23 Nov 1997, Jeremy Bartlett wrote:

> Partly. FYI it also has composite (not steel) trailing arms to reduce weight.
> The changes were also apparently made to reduce parts and speed serviceability.
...

To put in another tidbit, the trailing arms are designed to provide torsional resistance as well as fore and aft location, thereby doing away with the need for a rear anti-sway bar.

Cheers

John

I usually put the wading plug in before I go on a trail ride in case I encounter deep water. I think you're just not supposed to leave it in over extended periods, which I read to mean more than a few days.

Rich Ruffer
Morristown, NJ
'94 D90

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Maietta [SMTP:smaiet01_at_CATS.VILL.EDU]
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 1997 5:57 PM
> To: rro_at_playground.sun.com
> Subject: Wading plugs

[ truncated by list-digester (was 19 lines)] > missed
> the trip this sunday. Thanks Yahoo!!!

--

The head liner actually when compressed is less than 1 mm, and has a flocked material on top of the foam padding , so it will probably stop any squeaking. The stuff I am using is very sound absorbent, I don't think you'll need to put another layer of board or any thing else to kill sound. I think it would also be a nightmare to secure anything with any weight to it to the ceiling ( it would probably drop and sag or fall with the articulation the D90 goes through. The inside of the front doors and the entire floor and tail gait and wheel wells are going to get "Rhinoed" . The inside of the doors I'm going to leave with the factory door panels (they take too much abuse to use matching headliner material. The stuff I'm using is called "Heads-up" headliner from Pep Boys and at $29. per roll You might find it cheaper in 1 piece from an out interior place. (maybe) I had to use 3 rolls to cover every inch that was not glass or rubber. I think I'll put the rear light on the Roll bar so I can keep it in the summer.( any one have any good suppliers for the lights?) Chris "V"

: Barnett ,
: I thought about this, seems like a really good idea. I would assume if it : worked Chris Laws would be the man. But what I'm doing to the hard to for : now is taking conventional foam padded head liner and spray-menting it to : the fiberglass, it will really dampen the reverb and echo from the : interior, and silence the exterior noise also. It also gives it a nice : finished look also ( the fiberglass is not the most consistent material to
: finish) It takes 3 rolls of the over the counter stuff from Pep Boys or you
: could probably go to a auto top/ seat interior (possibly Chris Laws) place
: to get uncut larger pieces to make installation more professional (more : costly) So far it looks great , I'm just up in the air about weather I : should Rhino line it before I put the top on it or just wait until next : season when I remove the top again to have it Rhino lined ??? : Chris "V"

FYI - I had the back of my D90 Rhino-Lined, and they did it with the top still on.

Also, how thick is the headliner you are installing, and are you putting it on in a 'continuous' manner? I'm guessing that there are places you'll have to skip because there is too little clearance between the top and the roll cage. At least that's the case on my rig -- the top actually rubs against the cage (and squeeks, dammit!) in a few places, like the top rear corners. As for dampening reverb, I'd almost be tempted to glue some sort of stiffener to the largest expanse of roof area, and hide it with the headliner. Maybe a sheet of 3/16" masonite? Don't know; just a thought. While you are lining things, don't forget the insides of the front doors.

Hey, this sounds like a great opportunity to install a Dome Light over rear area; you can hide the wiring under the headlining!

Dang it! Now you got me excited about ANOTHER project :-)

--
Jeff Gauvin
'94 D90

I'm in the middle of sorting out the sound on my rangie, the interior trim is suffering a bit, so I am in the process of making door trims out of MDF which, as well as being hardwearing and cheap, it looks quite good when sprayed black. The other advantage is that it provides a very secure base for a speaker mount, it was recommended to me by the local stereo specialist, apparently that is what many house speaker boxes are made of. This means I can mount 6"x9" speakers in the doors (just) without them bouncing around or damaging the trim which would happen with the standard trim eventually. In the back, rather than buying the LR wheel & tool covers, I am making a similar item out of MDF which will hold everything how I want, and will also provide fixing points for my partner's wheelchair. I am then mounting some more 6"x9" speakers in the top of the MDF structure, i.e. a parcelshelf equivalent. They are angled forwards by an unequal ring which mounts between the speaker and the base. The spare wheel side will also take a subwoofer in the area over the wheel arch at some point when I can afford it. I have also had the suggestion of mounting some mid-high range speakers in MDF enclosures under or in the dash, I haven't looked into this for the rangie yet (it was recommended for my partner's mini) but it would mean that the treble could be aimed more directly at the front seats. I have been told by the stereo shop (although it seemed like too much hard work) that the ultimate place to mount speakers in a rangie is in the headlining above the tailgate. The lining isn't strong enough to support the speakers, so a MDF box has to be made, 6x9" speakers can then be mounted here, with up to 4 or 5 speakers here. These can be wired up to give different sound ranges to maximise each speaker pair's potential. The other advantage of this is that they can be completely hidden from a thieve's view by cutting the backing of the headlining where the speakers are, but not cutting the thin material front surface. The speakers are then held by the MDF, with the headlining covering them up but not affecting the sound. Ideally, the best upgrade to a sound system is speakers dedicated to various sound ranges and also an amp, this means that you can get the power needed in a vehicle of RR size and noise without pushing the stereo to it's limit and the inherent lack of quality and also you can get speakers which are more efficient at their jobs.

Matthew

1979 2-dr Range Rover 300Tdi

All,

Have been enjoying the daily flow of information so I thought I'd drop some thoughts from last weekends 72k servicing of my 93 D110. Making a trip Salt Lake friday and felt it time before the drive.

1. Replaced my rocker cover gaskets with the new rubber ones. (May remember my query from last week) Needed four rubber corks for the 2 heater hoses which required removal to replace the right side. Removed the throttle, air intake, plenum, alternator heat shield etc. to access the left rocker cover. Plenum removal was straightforward, although a quick trip to the store was required to get a metric allen wrench for the plenum bolts. The new rocker gaskets were very impressive compared to the old cork ones and fit exactly. I added a bit of hylomar on attachment to the rocker and the grooves in the gasket seated well to the cover. (Somebody mentioned on the list that a dealer had put some of these on in a manner that they leaked. Hard to believe as they were essentially idiot proof.) All in all the replacement job was a pleasure, of course accompanied by a few malt beverages.. The internals to my engine were remarkably clean. I did notice that the area of the head above cylinder No. 7 was slightly discoloured giving me suspicion this is a hot cylinder. Anybody know?
2. While having ignition wiring apart, access available etc. I replaced plugs. I was pleased to see that after 40k my platinum plugs were still clean burning and in respectable shape. Replaced then nonetheless as my mileage has dropped a bit. Replaced wires, cap and rotor. Wires, cap and rotor went 72k. Found that the repacement was much easier with the air intake hose to the plenum removed. This was especially crucial for ensuring correct spark plug alignment. I also found it much easier to acces plug 3 by removing the dip-stick holder. All plugs went in like silk.
3. Did an oil change with mobil 1. Found the internal nut holding the filter mating plate loose! Although the filter would hold the assembly together it was somewaht unnerving to see massive amounts of oil come out of the new gap!! Never encountered this before and there was no clue that it was loose (i.e., no leaking oil or apparent oil consumption). May be worth taking a gander at the nut while changing filters. I know I will in the future.

Still have not added my bypass oil filter. Spec'd one out through my Amsoil dealer. However, the addition of my bilsteins several weeks ago set me back. (Shocks were a snap!)

Well all for now.

Jim Sailer
93 NAS D110

sailer_at_srv.net