Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 12:17:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Waterproof Ignition
From: Jules_at_learnlink.emory.edu (Sean P. Murphy)

rro_at_playground.sun.com,Internet writes: >Does anyone know who sells this stuff?

Oooh. No kidding, this sounds similar to the setup on the Unimogs and I'd love to have something that truly sealed the distributor. I've already got the snorkle, electric fans with override, and breathers run above the passenger nostrils. I'm planning on putting the computer and coil into a nice waterproof box, so the only weak spot in my weak distributor waterproofing.

Sean P. Murphy
Project Director, LearnLink
Emory University

In a message dated 11/22/97 8:16:00 PM, you wrote:

<<So whats you opinion on the wading of the new 1997 distributorless D90 ? Any better at wading?
Chris "V">>

I haven't really spent much time under the hood of the new 4.0's so I'm not sure exactly how LR have the distributorless ignition setup. However, because it is a V8 they still have to have spark plug cables and that is a weak spot as far as submersion is concerned. The ultimate setup would be one like on the SAAB 2.3l engines. There is a coil for each plug and it is mounted directly above the plug and then sealed under the valve cover. There are no plug cables and all the high tension components are sealed from direct contact with water and the elements. On the 4.0, I believe, the coils are somewhat exposed and as I mentioned, still run wires. I don't think Rover designed the distributorless ignition for better wading but rather for more accurate ignition and to electronically integrate the ignition with combustion timing. It's probably a lot better than the distributor system although I don't think it is immune from drowning or extreme dampness hiccups.

The biggest problem though is not the ignition. If you stall while wading because of the ignition, a little time and WD-40 will get you fired up again. (of course you have to get out of the water first :) The ECU is the biggest problem. If you have lots of bucks you could always carry a few spares around but otherwise, if you drown the ECU, then you are really stuck and there ain't a trail fix in the world that will get the engine running. On the 4.0, the ignition is controlled by the ECU and that is just one more egg in the basket.
I'm considering making my Range Rover more wadeable and the first thing on my list is raising and waterproofing the ECU. Unlike the ignition, it seems pretty viable to waterproof the ECU by enclosing it in waterproof container. Drill a hole in the container for the harness to enter, install a tight grommet and some silicone RTV for the harness and finally tap a hole or two for breathers and connect them to tubing which goes to some high spot (i.e above the lining in the roof)

A few tips on water proofing the ignition: -Use 100 percent silicone spark plug cables. IMO the Genuine Rover cables leave a

        lot to be desired and leak when damp. Lift your hood on a damp night and 
        chances are you'll see a blue glow on the cables, if so get new cables.

-Apply self vulcanizing rubber tape to the boots of the cables at both ends. Make

sure they fit snug first though. -Apply generous amounts of silicone grease on the inside of the boots but not to

the actual contacts.
-Apply Kopr-Shield to all contacts including the coil contacts. Be careful as this

        is conductive and should be used only in small amounts directly on the 
        contacts otherwise it may cause voltage leaks.

-Wipe the inside of the distributor cap with pure silicone lubricant. Apply a little

        bit of silicone grease in between the eight terminals in the cap to prevent
        moisture tracking.
-Apply a bead of silicone grease on the cap where it mates to the
distributor. You        can use RTY silicone gasket sealer but the cap can be a
bear to get off. Also 
        use some silicone grease/RTV on the clear plastic pick-up cover.
-Apply "Liquid" electrical tape over all the low tension wires terminals on
the     coil. Also apply it to the ignition module plug.

-The distributor has two small breather holes on the bottom. Do not block these.

Instead, drill one of the holes out a little, tap it with a hose fitting and apply

a breather hose. Make sure the hose goes down a while before it goes up as the

hole also acts as a drain. Plug the other hole. -Finally, make sure everything is clean and spray it all with a coat of "wire

drier" or even hair spray.

This will not make your ignition waterproof but it will make it very water resistant. It will also help the ignition run better in all conditions. Hope this is somewhat useful.

Cheers,
George

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 13:20:03 -0800
From: Jeremy Bartlett <bartlett_at_slip.net> Subject: Re: Snorkel/Waterproofing

GNBull3_at_aol.com wrote:

> On the 4.0, I believe, the coils are
> somewhat exposed and as I mentioned, still run wires. I don't think Rover
> designed the distributorless ignition for better wading but rather for more
> accurate ignition

Exactly. The coils (4 of them) are about as safe as can be IF they're going tobe exposed and I agree its a shame they are. They're high at the rear above and behind the plenum. So you'll actually ingest water just before it reaches the coil pack :)

> The ECU is the biggest problem.

There's a rather interesting trade off (probably unintentional) between the later andolder models. The older models have the ECU in the interior under the seats which is low; whereas the later models have the ECU high but in the engine bay (more exposed)...
tough choice :)

BTW in the RRmkII there's another problem ... the BeCM which actually is MORE important than the ECM/U. ALL electrical circuit route through this (under the seat).

> A few tips on water proofing the ignition:
> -Use 100 percent silicone spark plug cables. IMO the Genuine Rover cables
> leave a
> lot to be desired and leak when damp.

True. FWIW the blue cables are reported to be the most reliable starting point.

cheers,

Jeremy

Here are my plans to solve, partialy, this problem. GNBull3_at_aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 11/22/97 8:16:00 PM, you wrote:
> <<So whats you opinion on the wading of the new 1997 distributorless
> D90 ?
> Any better at wading?
> Chris "V">>
> I haven't really spent much time under the hood of the new 4.0's so

[ truncated by list-digester (was 15 lines)] > weak spot
> as far as submersion is concerned.

I am going to replace my plug wires with the type that totally cover the nut of the plug. Once I have thw wires, I will rub a little silicone onto them before installation.

> The ultimate setup would be one like on
> the SAAB 2.3l engines. There is a coil for each plug and it is mounted
> directly above the plug and then sealed under the valve cover. There
> are no
> plug cables and all the high tension components are sealed from direct
> contact with water and the elements. On the 4.0, I believe, the coils
> are

[ truncated by list-digester (was 26 lines)] > biggest
> problem.

I am going to fit the ecu into a 'pilican box'. I will have to drill holes into the box for all of the wires which will be seales after installation. The boxes come with a fairly water tight lid. When I plan on wading, I will open the lid. All other times, the lid will remain open.

> If you have lots of bucks you could always carry a few spares around
> but otherwise, if you drown the ECU, then you are really stuck and
> there
> ain't a trail fix in the world that will get the engine running. On
> the 4.0,
> the ignition is controlled by the ECU and that is just one more egg in
> the

[ truncated by list-digester (was 82 lines)] > Cheers,
> George

Well...I went ahead and got a cheep cb. A midland for 60$ and a descent antenna. I mounted the cb to the air conditioning vent unit. I had to take the unit off, 4 screws, and then drilled 2 holes in the indented part just left of the switches. I then placed 2 bolts throudh the brackets and used washers and nuts to mount it. It is pretty sturdy. If you take this approach, be carefull with the switches and with the lead that goes to the ac unit. I took the switches out to gain room to drill the holes and place the nuts onto the bolts.I am planning on running the coax under the hood, the antenna is mounted to the roll bar, and then running it through one of the extra 'holes' in the back of the engine bay that run into the cab. However, I can not find where these holes are accessible in the cab. I may have lr do this as it appears that the entire dash must come off and I am not up for that :")

William & Beast(now talking)